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#1 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
do, usually also know that they do, in fact, not know it all at all. My wisdom is rather that the more you learn about a subject, the more you know how little you actually know about it. |
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#2 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sweden
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Pinkmouse,
I started a new thread in the Digital forum for the digital discussion, since Kuei didn't do as you ordered http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...879#post192879 |
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#3 | ||
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Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Somewhere nice on planet earth
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Koinichiwa,
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Quote:
I suspect if we took a Terminator 2000 and send it back in time to terminate the person who felt the need to bring this old chestnut up again and to again present extensively this persons wrong argumentation and continue this argumentation in the light of much posted evidence then all of this would have never happened.... Or perhaps if that person had a little more of the least common of all senses.... Sayonara |
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#4 |
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diyAudio Retiree
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Spain or the pueblo of Los Angeles
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"My wisdom is rather that the more you learn about a subject,
the more you know how little you actually know about it." Yes, and when you actually learn SomEthing from a reputable SourcE you SEe how little "Some Experts" know about it. Unfortunately Some Experts SEem to think it their task to "teach" othErS things they don't undErStand themSElves. I don't SEe much of this as a quEStion of credibility as much as recognizing the SElf-dEdeluSional. No one will Ever Straighten him out, but keeping othErS from being confuSEd by him SEems to require an large amount of effort better devoted to actually disscussing uSEful imformation. Of courSE I won't mention any namES. |
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#5 | |
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Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Somewhere nice on planet earth
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Koinichiwa,
Quote:
Order in the court.... Sayonara |
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#6 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
the people you are aiming at, not entirely unfair from your point of view, I admit. However, you do miss an important point. This is not a forum where a number of experts have signed up to answer questions from other people. It would be wondeful to have such a forum, but I suspect these experts would expect some kind of favour in return, like money. Rather, this is a forum where the majority of members neither are nor are expected to be professionel EEs or professionally involved in audio. If you are an EE and work professionaly with audio, like Jonathan Carr for instance, you are, by definition, not a DIYer. However, since most of us value the input of such people they are more than welcome as members anyway. OK, so let's assume we agree that only those who really really know what they are talking about are allowed to answer questions. What do you think would happen? Of course, there would be a number of people who answer without really knowing, either because they honestly but falsely believe to know, or because they want to fool themselves or others that they do know. How do we tell these people apart from those who do know? Sometimes nobody really knows, which is why there is still science going on in a number of universities, research labs and peoples homes. For simplicity, count out those who answer without knowing. Then I think it is a safe bet that a very small percentage of questions would be answered. Even if there were people who could answer all of them, why would they spend so much time and effort on this task? So we are left with what we have in so many other cases, for instance the usual situation at most peoples work, namely an interactive community of people on different, and often not comparable, levels where most people honestly want to give something back in return for all the answers they get to their own questions. People try to help to the best of their knowledge, which sometimes go wrong. However, one benefit of this is that instead of leaving the job of answering questions to a few select members (who are to select them?) the job is shared by everybody and the "experts" can save time by answering only those questions they find interesting and otherwise just skim through other peoples answers to the "trivial" questions and jump in and say "STOP" when the answer is wrong. Furthermore, trying to explain something to somebody else is often a very good way to clear your own thoughts. When trying to explain, you have to think a bit deeper than you have maybe done before, and if your explanation is wrong, because you had misunderstood the concept, there is a good chance somebody will tell you you were wrong, in which case you have learnt something yourself. (I do, however, myself admit to having tried to answer questions prematurely, without the proper dose of contemplation before, at occasions.) Further, you talk about credibility. Well, the problem is that the people you consider credible may not fully coincide with those I consider credible, so we really have no common set of credible persons on the forum, I am afraid. Oh no, this seems to be turning into another "novel" of mine, so I'd better stop here, but as they say "a picture says more than a thousand words", so I guess this is still shorter than most of your posts Fred. |
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#7 | |||||
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Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Somewhere nice on planet earth
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Koinichiwa,
Quote:
Now if I constantly criticise other people views (in fact, if I seem to have to have nothing better do than that and if I on the slightest drop of the hat pull the most ancient, moldy and several time covered all over chestnuts out, simply because I figure I'll "score" a quick "win"), then I cannot POSSIBLY complain if people expect me to have my fact absolutely right and to be able to provide proof. And it is that what is the point here. You can only have a discussion if you actually exchange views. If platitudes, tautologies, trueisms or worse complete chemically pure horse excrement are being presented as fact and explanation and no matter WHAT kind of actual research, experimentation etc. is being presented, the same old guff is being spouted continously, then you do not have a discussion, you do not have even an argument, you have contradicton on the level of: TF: I am right. Argument #536 LZX: No, you are not right and here is why. TF: I am right. Argument #563 LZX: No, you are still not right and here is why. TF: I am right. Argument #548 LZX: No, you have not grasped the essence and here is why. TF: I am right. Argument #536 And so on. It reminds me very much of the Monty Python Argument Skit, but my quota of Monty Python Skit Scrip postings per thread (2) is full.... Quote:
I mean apart from scizophrenic..... Quote:
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Sayonara |
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#8 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
unanswered, and those would be the questions from people who are not and do not pretend to be experts but who want to learn more or just get some help to build an amplifier or whatever. The only discussions would be those that the group of "experts" find interesting and it would all turn into an exclusive discussion club for these "experts". BTW, it is interesting to see that the previously so "vivid" discussion on back-to-back caps has almost come to a standstill after somebody, in this case yours truly, happend to sit down and actually read one of the papers we were supposed to already have read, and then tried to use a number of facts from this, supposedly credible publication, in to steer up the discussion. Or maybe it is just a coincidence? |
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#9 | |
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Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Somewhere nice on planet earth
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Koinichiwa,
Quote:
Sayonara |
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#10 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
No, of course not. But instead of getting no answer at all in 99% of the cases, people now try to answer, critisize each others answers and discuss the matter, often coming to, if not a clear answer, at least a better understanding of the problem. Further, if a question gets the wrong answer and the above process does not happen, then in most cases somebody who does know the answer but didn't want to/were to lazy to/were to busy to/... answer it in the first place will usually jump in and point out that the answer is wrong. Most of them do it politely and also provide the correct answer, others prefer to tell how incompetent these other people are without even trying to demonstrate whether they actually know the answer themselves. Furthermore, how do you know if you get the right answer? If you get no answer at all, you are safe, since you have with 100% certainty not got the wrong answer. If you get an answer, you can never be 100% sure it is correct, and very often there isn't even one single correct answer, but several equally correct answers, perhaps neither of which tell the whole truth by themselves. Myself, I prefer to get many answers, or rather, answers from many people. Then I can try to analyze what they say and how they motivate their answers etc. and then try to form my own opinion on which, if any, of these people to believe. |
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