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Old 26th January 2010, 04:06 PM   #21
DougL is online now DougL  United States
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Here is a better explanation of the book "All Marketers Are Liars".

Be a Better Liar - May 1, 2005

The message is people believe stories that agree with their world view.

Bose tells a story that speaker design is very difficult and needs Ivy League PhD and lots of research money. Most people love that story and will pay a premium for the products.
Most of us violently despise the story and would not be caught dead owning one.

I now ask myself what story marketing is telling. Sad part is I still am not immune.

Doug
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Old 5th February 2010, 06:52 PM   #22
pdul is offline pdul  Denmark
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What do you think about this marketing from a shoe repairshop in the Philippines:
All about the vocal:
"We will heel you, we will repair your sole, and we will even dye for you"
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Old 5th February 2010, 08:44 PM   #23
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdul View Post
What do you think about this marketing from a shoe repairshop in the Philippines:
All about the vocal:
"We will heel you, we will repair your sole, and we will even dye for you"
Very good!
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Old 5th February 2010, 09:25 PM   #24
Key is offline Key  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
There will be good examples and bad. I don't see a lot of examples of good "value" in hi-end audio. A few companies who hold high quality, but almost universally at a premium price. There don't seem to be too manys "Honda's of Audio".
I'd say IAG (mainly Wharfedale) would fit that bill. Maybe Jamo. I think the tendency though is for people to think that the more expensive speaker with higher WAF sounds better even if the only thing different is the glossy finish.
http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/emplibrary/j...mann_final.pdf

If you assume that is true then the "Honda Business Model" might work better imo. That is make your entry level speaker just as good as the more expensive models just with no WAF (preferably plain black) and most likely in a small modular (stand mount) design. And as you go up the line in upgrades you get either a better WAF/finish, more bass extension, or less distortion/increased dynamic range. The more expensive speakers really don't have to be much better than the entry level line - people will still get the upgrade bug - they just have to be as good or a little better.
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Old 5th February 2010, 11:59 PM   #25
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Key View Post
If you assume that is true then the "Honda Business Model" might work better imo. That is make your entry level speaker just as good as the more expensive models just with no WAF (preferably plain black) and most likely in a small modular (stand mount) design. And as you go up the line in upgrades you get either a better WAF/finish, more bass extension, or less distortion/increased dynamic range. The more expensive speakers really don't have to be much better than the entry level line - people will still get the upgrade bug - they just have to be as good or a little better.
Except thats not reality. It costs more to make higher performance so it has to sell for more unless you gouge the low end product and that IS NOT the Honda model. Basically I see the Honda model as a consistant vale all the way up the line - you pay more the product is better. In a loudspeaker its how you define "better". If better is shinier or more WAF then thats one thing, but if better actually means Sound Quality then thats anothre thing entirely. So you really have to pick which it is that you want to do. I DO sound quality, others do WAF and just claim sound quality.
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Old 6th February 2010, 12:25 AM   #26
Key is offline Key  United States
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Lol yeah I guess I am all over the place with my analogy - not a car person really. To me if you isolate Wharfedale from the sister companies it is consistent quality up the line with actual tangible improvements - bass, dynamics, spl. Maybe there is a little WAF mixed in with there Opus line but really look at those drivers and compare them to there only competition - ATC, and K&H - and they offer considerable build quality for the price.

Now if you mix in the sister companies like Quad - which seem to have some of the same products but with better WAF - and yeah my analogy falls to pieces. At that point it's more like Chevrolet, Cadillac and Buick where they make the same thing with interchangeable parts but with different WAF. Anyway I can see how certain finishes could realistically add to the cost of a product.
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Old 7th February 2010, 01:23 AM   #27
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Key View Post
Anyway I can see how certain finishes could realistically add to the cost of a product.
I'm discovering that finish is a major factor to cost, almost a driving factor. Think about it for a minute - if you have X to spend and the major factor in your decision is "finish", how much "sound quality" do you think that you are going to get? This, as I see it, is the current marketplace - dominated by looks and finish with virtually no attention to sound quality. Not my cup of tea thank you. Finish is not irrelavent, but when its about all you are buying then its a problem.
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Old 7th February 2010, 01:39 AM   #28
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As a professional marketer, engaged at the consumer end of my market I know two things to be true and almost more important in leading to a sale than anything else.

1.People buy with their eyes. 2. If you present them a story they can believe in, even better if you leave a few blanks in that story that they can fill in for themselves, you stand a much better chance of making a sale.

Of course these two only become really important if you work in markets saturated with me-too products with little or no differentiation in specification or performance- like Hifi.
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Old 7th February 2010, 01:50 AM   #29
Key is offline Key  United States
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Yeah, that is true with a lot of companies. Some that I have mentioned have 2 models though one without the fancy finish and one with it. The disparity between the prices on the two models can be shocking. I forget the difference in price but I think it's somewhere around 10 grand difference between the home and the pro with these 2 TransAudio Group - SCM50ASL
ATC Loudspeakers. ATC Monitors. ATC SCM. ATC Speakers. Manufacturers of speakers, monitors, drive units and amplifiers.
And the undercutting Wharfedale copy that might actually be better
Wharfedale Opus (Version 2) M1, 3-way Monitor Bookshelf Speakers (
you pay $750 for the gloss finish - to be fair this finish actually IS labor intensive and takes about half a month of adding layers of paint and letting it dry each day.

And actually with some of the models which are pretty much the same it seems like the cheaper one might be the better build. Casually comparing my speakers to the more expensive version from QUAD with the WAF, the WAF model is missing the waveguide on the mid driver.

Beyond all this I think what happens more than not is name brand reputation or recognition. If ATC didn't have a reputation no effing way would anyone buy those 3 ways for 15 grand. And it's basically what Lexicon was doing with the re badging thing. It does seem to be throughout the industry - studios that need to get clients in the door need the right brand name gear even if they could get better without the brand name for cheaper.

Last edited by Key; 7th February 2010 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 7th February 2010, 01:58 AM   #30
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Marketing makes the world go round.

Speaking of "finishes" and marketing -- even the low end retailers will spring for a bit of eye-candy if it will juice "sales per square foot".
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