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Old 2nd January 2010, 02:47 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by oatmeal769 View Post
can you point me to a link or two? I'd like to see it.
Just search for Randi in the cables thread, it was discussed to death.

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Originally Posted by oatmeal769 View Post
Either way, just show some objective evidence. ANY. WHY is that so hard?
I guess the only way would be to go through a boring DBT that nobody will believe anyway. Much nicer to listen to music or fly my R/C helicopter.

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Originally Posted by oatmeal769 View Post
Produce objective proof of your statements. NO ONE will laugh at you if you do.
I have not discovered burn-in after reading all this ****, I realised it years ago after starting to do comparative testing and accepted it as a known issue. I was quite surprised to find a lot of clever ***** here that deny its existance.

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Sounds very interesting! Finally something to take seriously. [I]PLEASE produce your methodology so that others here and elsewhere may repeat the testing and analyze the results for themselves. We all can then independently confirm or deny, and reach a consensus. Even if your reasoning turns out to be flawed, we can help refine it into something useful for everyone.
The test were not done to proof burn-in, it was the cable importer that brought in new Legend cables at the time and wanted me to try it. I've told him that I prefer the SQ of the (used) Master Ref cables and he was obviously not impressed. We did a blind test where I left the room between cable changes and then had to decide which cable sounded better to me. A / B preference test) I have chosen the Master Ref every time. After two weeks on the noise generator the silver cable was so much better than the Master Ref that I only compared them once in the same blind test setup and decided it is a waste of time to continue the test.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 03:18 PM   #512
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Andre, do you realize that you are the prime 'know it all'? You're the one that is '100% sure' ? 'We' are looking for answers, we are asking for data and information....
jd
No Jan I never claimed to know it all, I can only tell what the results were of some listening tests that I've done for myself and not read about somewhere(obviously never good enough but I'm satisfied with the results). Beyond that, I can only speculate on what influences correspond with these results and hopefully get an understanding of what really happens, maybe someday.

Luckily there are others also who's ears / brain are still free to hear and not limited by what 'science' (according to some) allows us to hear.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 03:37 PM   #513
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Well said Andre. We can be reasonable, but this will not PROVE to people who have already been indoctrinated with the negative propaganda of Randi, Lipshitz, et al. Yes, this is all politics of the mind. The DEMAND for hard proof in this subjective evaluation is almost impossible to fulfill with someone who can't accept it in the first place.
However, did I get you right? You compared two cables. One was silver. The silver cable failed several times in the comparison. Then once the cable had been 'burned in' the silver cable emerged as the better one. Guess what, we found that out, years ago, just as you did. Some coincidence. or was it delusion, hallucination ... or just sloppy science? ;-)

Last edited by john curl; 2nd January 2010 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 03:56 PM   #514
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Anyone who tries to read this relatively simple chapter in the F&C book will be introduced to a whole new world of how complex simple materials really are. This textbook is beyond normal engineering and is rather specialized. Yet people have obviously spent millions of dollars in this area of research, and it continues. There are lots of books like this, and they are just as expensive, hard to read, and exotic as this one. That is where the real world resides, folks. Not in Ohm's law, taken as gospel, where people will almost physically rise to protect its purity.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 03:58 PM   #515
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Well honestly - and understand I am not grasping at straws here but just trying to give you an alternative explanation - it could be that what burned in was your brain. Similar to the way when you walk into a room with different lighting and your eyes adjust your sense of hearing can acclimate to new environments in the same way. So without a measurement of before and after it could just be your brain or it could be the cable - who knows?
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Old 2nd January 2010, 04:00 PM   #516
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Now let me offer another even more interesting book:
'Electronic Properties of Materials' by Rolf E. Hummel
Springer-Verlag
Part 2,'Electrical conduction in metals and alloys', is especially interesting.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 04:02 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by Andre Visser View Post
No Jan I never claimed to know it all, I can only tell what the results were of some listening tests that I've done for myself and not read about somewhere(obviously never good enough but I'm satisfied with the results). Beyond that, I can only speculate on what influences correspond with these results and hopefully get an understanding of what really happens, maybe someday.

Luckily there are others also who's ears / brain are still free to hear and not limited by what 'science' (according to some) allows us to hear.
**. You said you were 100% sure that what you think you heard was IT. A single listening test convinced you and you got lazy.
No need to speculate what other influences etc. These are all well known. You refuse to educate yourself. You deliberately chose to remain ignorant. Your choice.

jd
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Old 2nd January 2010, 04:07 PM   #518
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You refuse to educate yourself. You deliberately chose to remain ignorant. Your choice.
Ignorance is the least sin in this thread.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 04:07 PM   #519
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Stay 'Ignorant' Andre. If you make a comparison, you make it with the same test conditions for the two cables. You don't necessarily have to prove it 16 times more.
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Old 2nd January 2010, 04:08 PM   #520
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Syn08, I am recommending reference books. What is your contribution?
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