It was not inconsistent that day, we got very repeatable distortion when swapping, but the order of distortion between cables (iow, highest distortion to lowest distortion) was different than you had measured a few days before. You'd need to figure out why that is before calling the effects "real."
This may be far fetched.....
The reason for the results differing, day to day, may be the relative humidity, temperature, or the like.
I have to admit that I have no experience in this field myself, but a friend of mine, whom works on military radars, has told me they have a temperature and climate controlled room, for low level (or high frequency) measurements.
Magura
The reason for the results differing, day to day, may be the relative humidity, temperature, or the like.
I have to admit that I have no experience in this field myself, but a friend of mine, whom works on military radars, has told me they have a temperature and climate controlled room, for low level (or high frequency) measurements.
Magura
No one doubts measurable differences. If they do, they are wrong because measurements of differing phenomena can be clearly and repeatedly demonstrated under the strictest of objective conditions.
The point is, who cares??? You nor anyone else can hear the difference. You can only detect differences via measurement equipment. If this is about fidelity to the human ear, who cares if you can measure differences that you cannot hear?
The point is, who cares??? You nor anyone else can hear the difference. You can only detect differences via measurement equipment. If this is about fidelity to the human ear, who cares if you can measure differences that you cannot hear?
I think there may even be more objective evidence pointing toward the existence of UFO's.very fitting description....so there...the parameters are set....
That would be a paradox, because trusting *your* lying ears, you sir, can hear no difference either.Trust your lying ears, or trust the hear no difference people. Your choice.
You nor anyone else can hear the difference.
Who exactly decides (and under what circumstances) what others are 'allowed' to hear and what not?
.
No one yet has been able to objectively demonstrate that they can detect a difference in 'burned-in' vs. non burned-in cable by listening alone.Who exactly decides (and under what circumstances) what others are 'allowed' to hear and what not?
.
What I don't understand is why anyone would want to demonstrate that in the first place. Surely after a month or two one's cables will be burned in? Assuming there is such a thing.No one yet has been able to objectively demonstrate that they can detect a difference in 'burned-in' vs. non burned-in cable by listening alone.
The reason for the results differing, day to day, may be the relative humidity, temperature, or the like.
Or, most likely, another CFL on in a neighbour apartment.
Let me try to make my assertion as simple and direct as I can.
John Curl (or anyone else) can not demonstrate under objective conditions that he can perceive a difference between 'burned-in' and non 'burned-in' cables.
John Curl, (or anyone else) can not demonstrate under objective conditions that he can perceive a difference between 'burned-in' or non burned in speaker cables, and an equal length and gauge of inexpensive A.C. extension cord.
John Curl (or anyone else) can not demonstrate under objective conditions that he can perceive a difference between generic budget audio interconnects of proper construction, and any other audio interconnect of the same length, gauge and proper construction using his sense of hearing alone. Burned in or not, regardless of cost, material used, etc.
I can further define what I mean if necessary, but I'm hopeful this clarifies.
Therefore, it is unwarranted and ridiculous to come to forums such as this and assert to people that they can tell a difference.
Incidentally, the James Randi Institute, offers one million U.S. dollars to ANYONE who thinks they CAN show that they hear any difference.
John Curl (or anyone else) can not demonstrate under objective conditions that he can perceive a difference between 'burned-in' and non 'burned-in' cables.
John Curl, (or anyone else) can not demonstrate under objective conditions that he can perceive a difference between 'burned-in' or non burned in speaker cables, and an equal length and gauge of inexpensive A.C. extension cord.
John Curl (or anyone else) can not demonstrate under objective conditions that he can perceive a difference between generic budget audio interconnects of proper construction, and any other audio interconnect of the same length, gauge and proper construction using his sense of hearing alone. Burned in or not, regardless of cost, material used, etc.
I can further define what I mean if necessary, but I'm hopeful this clarifies.
Therefore, it is unwarranted and ridiculous to come to forums such as this and assert to people that they can tell a difference.
Incidentally, the James Randi Institute, offers one million U.S. dollars to ANYONE who thinks they CAN show that they hear any difference.
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Significant? I doubt it in most cases for audio circuitry (electrometers and timing circuits are a different matter), but at least we're talking about real stuff and not N-Rays.
Yup, our first DIY 20fA op-amp tester needed 24 burn-in whenever it was worked on. No amount of cleaning, DI washing and bake could fix it.
No one yet has been able to objectively demonstrate that they can detect a difference in 'burned-in' vs. non burned-in cable by listening alone.
I'm not aware of any such tests, any references?
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Andre, read the quoted-back post again.
Does that mean nobody did a DBT on burn-in yet or that DBT tests were done and show no difference?
Quote without comment: "... a minority group now cite conductor and interconnect performance as a limiting factor within an audio system. The masses, however, are still content to congregate with their like-minded friends and make jokes in public about the vision of the converted, content to watch their distortion factor meters confidently null at the termination of any old piece of wire. Believing in Ohm's law, they feel strong in their brotherhood." This was written by a Ph'D professor of engineering, more than 24 years ago. Sound familiar? Notice any similarity here? Anybody learn anything yet?
Quote without comment: "... a minority group now cite conductor and interconnect performance as a limiting factor within an audio system. The masses, however, are still content to congregate with their like-minded friends and make jokes in public about the vision of the converted, content to watch their distortion factor meters confidently null at the termination of any old piece of wire. Believing in Ohm's law, they feel strong in their brotherhood." This was written by a Ph'D professor of engineering, more than 24 years ago. Sound familiar? Notice any similarity here? Anybody learn anything yet?
Yes:
Anecdotes were also around, 24 years ago.
Magura
About the same time as this Professor gave his opinion on the situation, another Professor, Dr. Lipshitz, criticized me in the same publication. I have to find his exact response, and it was not about wires, but capacitors.
Dr. Lipshitz said: (in paraphrase) that my math was OK, my measurements were OK, BUT it didn't matter, because cap differences were not detectable anyway, and this could be proven by 'objective testing'. Oh well, back to the drawing board, and all my competitors, especially those with more capitalization or even a better education, please heed his words carefully and don't bother to use better components. After all, my income comes from people liking and buying my designs, even if they are not conveniently available at your local discount store. '-)
Dr. Lipshitz said: (in paraphrase) that my math was OK, my measurements were OK, BUT it didn't matter, because cap differences were not detectable anyway, and this could be proven by 'objective testing'. Oh well, back to the drawing board, and all my competitors, especially those with more capitalization or even a better education, please heed his words carefully and don't bother to use better components. After all, my income comes from people liking and buying my designs, even if they are not conveniently available at your local discount store. '-)
Does that mean nobody did a DBT on burn-in yet or that DBT tests were done and show no difference?
The former. Those who claim that it makes a difference don't bother with verifying their claims. Those who understand basic physics don't waste their time with every foolish thing that people propose.
Notice any similarity here? Anybody learn anything yet?
Yes indeed. People still make empty claims and there's always a sucker to believe them.
The former. Those who claim that it makes a difference don't bother with verifying their claims.
Just never thought it is necessary to verify something like that, it will burn-in anyway, whether you hear it or not.
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