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frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
One could argue that DIY is the antithesis of the high-end, a rebellion that says a competent engineer or other enthusiast who loves the hobby can do better than the high-end poseurs.

I would have to disagree with that. Certainly there is a lot of high-priced stuff out there that isn't worth it, and the very term audio-phile has some bad conotations from those "audio-philes" that are really "hifi-gear-a-philes" whose real interest is in gear and not enjoying the music. But there is some serious kit in the high-end. Who doubts that PassLabs amps are good -- heck we have a whole forum dedicated to people building hi-end amps based on Nelson's work. As a diyer -- besides how much fun it is -- my goal is to try to get as close to the music as possible, to get performance akin to the true hi-end (and to help show up the "hi-end" that is more bling than performance).

And further, tweaking is a time honoured diy activity... i remember with fondness the greening articles that appeared in Audio Amateur, the great sense of accomplishment from significant gains made by tweaking commercial speakers. Many very valid hi-end product designers got started tweaking other people's gear.

You are free to ignore the existeance of this forum if you wish.

dave
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
"DBT-free zone"

This forum will not be DBT-free. But it will insist on statistically & procedurally valid DBT for any "proof". Most of what passes for DBTs in the audio world are jokes at best.

A proper DBT is not easy to set up and not inexpensive in terms of time and/or money.

Floyd Toole's new book has some good commentary on this, and our own Jakob2 is well versed... it is very informative reading his posts.

dave
 
diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
I would have to disagree with that. Certainly there is a lot of high-priced stuff out there that isn't worth it, and the very term audio-phile has some bad conotations from those "audio-philes" that are really "hifi-gear-a-philes" whose real interest is in gear and not enjoying the music. But there is some serious kit in the high-end. Who doubts that PassLabs amps are good -- heck we have a whole forum dedicated to people building hi-end amps based on Nelson's work. As a diyer -- besides how much fun it is -- my goal is to try to get as close to the music as possible, to get performance akin to the true hi-end (and to help show up the "hi-end" that is more bling than performance).

And further, tweaking is a time honoured diy activity... i remember with fondness the greening articles that appeared in Audio Amateur, the great sense of accomplishment from significant gains made by tweaking commercial speakers. Many very valid hi-end product designers got started tweaking other people's gear.

You are free to ignore the existance of this forum if you wish.

dave


Dave : I did not mean to open a can of worms, but people do seem to have very different points of view on exactly WHAT tweaking means.

I acknowledge my ignorance on a lot of subjects but when people refuse to believe in the science of any subject I have trouble keeping my fingers off the "NO " button.

As in no "BS":yikes:
 
I will try not to offend you Moondog55, but a tweakers "santuary" is a place for listeners. Listening is subjective. Science can't explain everything.

I have a disease that the bacteria was only discovered in 1981. Science in many areas of this disease has let us down and left us hanging out to dry. I also admit to having a turrets like symptom and rages that go along with this disease that come through the key board most of the time.

Cryo treatment is permanent and is a legitimate tweak . You may not think it is science but it is used extensivley by NASA as well as by NASCAR. Here are some resources about cryo treatment. from people who I trust their ability to listen, hear, and help with some of the tools to tweak a system.

http:///www.cryo-parts.com/whycryo.html

http://www.vhaudio.com/cryo.html

Science and art are sometimes at odds here. This should be a forum about the "art" of listening.

Not everything that we can hear can be explained by modern science. It takes a trained ear and slow methodical tweaking to make a system of electronic components come together to come alive and make music that can move you and involve you emotionally.

I don't think I will be a participant here because I already see where this is heading. An open mind is needed, and very hard to come by in this community of audiophiles who are set in their ways.

Good luck to you all. I will enjoy my crystals and cryo treatment, my cables lifted off the floor, fancy power cords and AC outlets ,RFI filters on my speaker cables, and last, but very much not least, the art of the music that breaths life from my system while you can enjoy your "science".

Keith
 
a sort of Free Form, EnABL-ing -

tobacco juice, or poop, not sure

on one speaker only -

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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

#2 pooch did something similar when she was a puppy -- the asparagus came shootin' out (and I will dispense with the scatological poetry.)
 
diyAudio Editor
Joined 2001
Paid Member
:captain: Yes this area is supposed to allow discussion of any observation, whether it can be proven or not:

"That's way its called a "Sanctuary"

Keith is perfectly correct. His sorts of interests are welcome here in the sanctuary. The idea is that people do hear differences, some real, some imagined. Here they can be mentioned, and discussed , but always with respect, no matter how exotic the idea might be! I DO think it is a good idea for him to start a new thread to discuss his ideas. We need to do better than at some other places where people are shouted down. If you don't agree, then you are free to state this in a reasonable manner. We are not looking for foodfights.

Mark
"Variac"
 
diyAudio Editor
Joined 2001
Paid Member
There was a mention of "tweaks we know work well". How do we know that they work well? My observation of commercial organizations that offer tweaking to existing gear is that some parts of their mods make sense and some don't. Where I draw that line is probably different than someone else would, but I would be very careful of using the term "tweaks we know work very well"
 
diyAudio Editor
Joined 2001
Paid Member
In any of the forums the term B.S. and its associated smilie is a priori considered a lack of respect. There are other ways to say that it doesn't make sense in your opinion. This forum has no special rules, however all of our forums expect that others will be treated with respect. Purposely sabotaging a thread or forum with off topic antics will not be allowed. Insults will not be allowed.
 
diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
Aplogies for my own rudeness

OK Variac

Admonition accepted and my apologies tendered.

As to which tweaks work well, I would say that almost all of the simple ones, in speakers at least; mostly adding those components that the factory leave out of a speaker for commercial cost consideration.



Perhaps the biggest and most effective tweak actually takws place BETWEEN our ears; by relaxing and just listening without distraction.

The music always sounds better when I am healthy and relaxed and in a good mellow mood so perhaps we need to take much more consideration of our listening environment and our mental state.

OT:-

How about a list of recommended books that I can take to our local library and ask them to buy in??
 
My reply to Andy-C

"We've already seen one of these "victims" express their views in a post that has unfortunately been deleted. This person used to run a Hi-Fi shop and was angry that people thought cables made no difference. Everyone knows that cables have the highest markup of any audio items. Objectivists cost him profits, so that makes him a victim. Tough ****!

This is not because wire was such a big money generating machine as you suggest. This was in the mid eighties. It is because we truly believed that it improved the sound and wanted people to experience what they were missing. It required that we sold $30,000 a month just to break even and I was responsible for this and consider the time. Don't talk down to me about making a profit in this horrid business.

"Tough ****"?

This sort of stuff is OK with you guys? What would happen is I refer this misguided person, and I will self edit my other feelings about this poster as an *** !
 
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