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Old 20th August 2009, 08:27 AM   #1
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Default First post in new forum

Don't have anything new to say, I just wanted to be the FIRST to post in the new section.

I do the usual cheap and easy tweaking, adding foam or fibre to speaker boxes I get for free, perhaps the replacement of a capacitor with bigger values, increasing the size of the wire internally.

Just the usual cheap tricks really

Regards
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Old 20th August 2009, 12:29 PM   #2
piero7 is offline piero7  Italy
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Old 22nd August 2009, 06:35 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post

Just the usual cheap tricks really
a sort of Free Form, EnABL-ing -

tobacco juice, or poop, not sure

on one speaker only -

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by tomtt; 22nd August 2009 at 06:36 PM. Reason: 128
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Old 7th September 2009, 02:45 AM   #4
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And so I can assume that you have personal listening experience and have compared cyro treated wire to no cryo treated wire to come to this conclusion that it is "witchcraft "as you say.

So what are you going to say when I say with all conviction that different makes , models, and brands, of AC outlets sound different and that Cryo treating them can improve them?
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Old 7th September 2009, 02:47 AM   #5
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Yep I agree Moondog, though I wouldn't just restrict to speakers Amps, sources whatever.

My Playmaster Series 200 has had a number of tweaks over the years. One was adding some resistors and changing a cap value at a particular point in the preamp, which completely eliminated a problem I had with oscillation. Now that is IMO a good tweak! Can't remember the details, and the chances that anyone else is using a series 200 that is likely to read this is extremely low, but the Playmaster 60/60 had a virtually identical preamp section, and I modded my Series 200 to match that. I figured they must have made the change for a reason, and obviously they had

Another was at the suggestion of some others in the forum to add some emitter resistors at a particular point in the poweramp circuit, from memory this resulted in measurably lower distortion.

Yet another was me making a lead sheild for my toroidal, which resulted in a very audible reduction in wideband noise that was being picked up by the preamp section.

I'm sure I could go on though for my particular mods no one will really be interested. I'm sure there are plenty with mods that will be of more interest to the wider DIY community. Some of these will be measurable, some may not be, but any that result in an improvement for the person doing the mod, whether they be tangible or intangible I think rightly fits in this forum.

If someone posts that they found that drawing a pentagram on top of all of their capacitors with a particular brand of black marker pen improved their sonics then good for them. There is no way that I would try it, but if you don't believe it, then ignore it. There is no point trying to tell someone that they don't hear what they hear, if they hear it, and it makes them happy then all the better for them It doesn't hurt anyone else, and hey if psycoacoustics works for them then why not

Tony.
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Old 7th September 2009, 02:50 AM   #6
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Unless you can provide verified data that supports the treatment I'd just ignore the post.

I do not have the time and money to waste on liquid helium for a pointless exercise as I do have access to a lab with sensitive enough equipment to measure sonically undetectable variations
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Old 7th September 2009, 03:01 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Keith Lockwood View Post
And so I can assume that you have personal listening experience and have compared cyro treated wire to no cryo treated wire to come to this conclusion that it is "witchcraft "as you say.

So what are you going to say when I say with all conviction that different makes , models, and brands, of AC outlets sound different and that Cryo treating them can improve them?
I can see that cyro treatment could potentially alter the physical makeup of the wire which may affect it's conductivity, which may in turn affect the sound. This is looking at it from a purely scientific point of view. Whther there are effects that are not immediately obvious, because we don't have any scientific explanation for them is another thing that is hotly debated.... It is human nature to discount anything that can't be explained. As I said in my previous post if it makes a difference for you then all the better, as in the end you as the person listening is really the only one that matters.

One debate that has raged for a long time is whether different capacitors make a difference. A read of Walt Jungs article on capacitors should enlighten anyone who has doubts. A lot of people who doubt will do so because the person is saying "using this cap made a difference" but doesn't have any scientific proof to back it up. The person my not have the knowlege or the equipment to come up with proof (or it may not actually be possible to measure the thing that makes a difference) but their ears will tell them there is a difference. A read of Walt's article should make a doubter realise that there are very real differences which can be measured, and just beacuse the person making the claim is not able to do this measurement/proof does not mean that their claims are invalid

I think the spirit of a tweaking forum is more that people like to tweak things, and if others do the same and like the results, who cares whether there is any scientific explanation for why it worked

Tony.
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Last edited by wintermute; 7th September 2009 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 7th September 2009, 03:15 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by wintermute View Post

It doesn't hurt anyone else, and hey if psycoacoustics works for them then why not

Tony.
reflecting on the above it was at odds with the rest of my post where I was trying to be neutral, I should not be implying that anything not measureable is psycho-acoustics, but rather that it might be, or it may be that we just haven't discovered the measurement that will prove a particular effect. I must state however, that I personally am usually very skeptical of certain claims especially when the products or treatements being offered have an extremely high price associated with them, but even if if it is only psyco-acoustics, then if it works and the person paying for it is happy then who are we to rain on their parade

Tony.
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Old 7th September 2009, 03:34 AM   #9
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I really hope the moderators don't let good ideas get squashed here by these audio hillbillys who can divine the truth through immaculate misconception. Which means they don't ever have to listen to "know" something can't work. Or maybe it's just they can't hear?
I'll have to double check with Mark, but IIRC from discussions long, long ago, in a place far away, the intent of this forum is to give room for sensible discussion of things that so far are beyond the ken of statistical proof... a place where the edges can be explored as well as solid well proven tweeks.

dave
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Old 7th September 2009, 03:38 AM   #10
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OK Tony, but it really has nothing to do with "Tweaking " as such and while I do try and try maintain an objective POV, I still maintain that if a difference can't be measured it doesn't exist.
Sound is subjective and perhaps psychoacoustics rules.

I have to say that the reply from KL was the first instance of deliberate rudeness I personally have encountered in this forum.

Perhaps KL should visit a dictionary for a definition of Cryogenics before shooting the messenger??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenics
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