en.v (www.envearth.com) is an initiative that is dedicated to raising awareness for issues related to social responsibility in the Arab world.
For our quarterly publication (summer edition that is distributed in 9 countries throughout the Arab World) we would like to pose a question and receive your feedback for our “technology” section regarding the following:
In most Arab countries there tends to be a concentration of mosques in large residential areas. And as per Islamic law, prayer (“Adaan”) is recited 5 times a day from these mosques. All mosque’s clocks and audio systems are not synchronized to a centralized broadcast system so it is typical for prayers to be broadcast from several different mosques in a dense urban area all at varying times (with delays occurring within a matter of seconds or even minutes sometimes). Furthermore, the “Imam” or person leading the prayers in each mosque exhibits a unique audible range with their recitations (as is only natural given that we are human), whereby some recitations are pleasant to the ear and others are piercing.
We would like to pose the following question. Given your understanding of acoustics, what are your thoughts regarding an economical and sustainable solution to the above-mentioned problem? What technologies exist today (or are under R&D for the near future) that can counter “noise pollution” in a dense urban environment (keeping in mind delicate cultural and religious traditions)? And can you cite examples, if any, of implemented solutions or technologies in cities today that have successfully countered a similar problem(s)?
Looking forward to receiving your feedback. For those whose answers we find the most enlightening and well constructed we request permission to publish them within our publication (both online and in print) to which we will credit you for.
For our quarterly publication (summer edition that is distributed in 9 countries throughout the Arab World) we would like to pose a question and receive your feedback for our “technology” section regarding the following:
In most Arab countries there tends to be a concentration of mosques in large residential areas. And as per Islamic law, prayer (“Adaan”) is recited 5 times a day from these mosques. All mosque’s clocks and audio systems are not synchronized to a centralized broadcast system so it is typical for prayers to be broadcast from several different mosques in a dense urban area all at varying times (with delays occurring within a matter of seconds or even minutes sometimes). Furthermore, the “Imam” or person leading the prayers in each mosque exhibits a unique audible range with their recitations (as is only natural given that we are human), whereby some recitations are pleasant to the ear and others are piercing.
We would like to pose the following question. Given your understanding of acoustics, what are your thoughts regarding an economical and sustainable solution to the above-mentioned problem? What technologies exist today (or are under R&D for the near future) that can counter “noise pollution” in a dense urban environment (keeping in mind delicate cultural and religious traditions)? And can you cite examples, if any, of implemented solutions or technologies in cities today that have successfully countered a similar problem(s)?
Looking forward to receiving your feedback. For those whose answers we find the most enlightening and well constructed we request permission to publish them within our publication (both online and in print) to which we will credit you for.
Hello Khadjia,
Your post brought back memories from my trips to Jordan and Syria, so I understand your question!
Let me ask another question: given that most of the recitations are pre-recorded on casette tape or something (that was what I was told), is it an option to have a central 'transmission' to many mosques? For a low-tech solution, someone could play centrally (or even speak live) at one place, and relay it by telephone to a number of mosques. So, all at exactly the same time, all the same text so no confusion by hearing two different texts at the same time.
Assuming that each Imam would like to give his personal message (don't know if that is true, just assuming, if this is not the case then disregard the next part): each Imam could take turns to speak to all mosques, like one Imam on Monday, another on Tuesday etc.
For a more hi-tech (and better fidelity) solution you could replay a central message through the internet to any mosque that wants to air it. In this case, people who cannot hear the recitation for any reason can listen to it at another moment.
I don't know if I am talking sense, I may look stupid because I don't know the requirements for Islam, but just trying to think about a technical solution.
Edit: corrected spelling
Jan Didden
Your post brought back memories from my trips to Jordan and Syria, so I understand your question!
Let me ask another question: given that most of the recitations are pre-recorded on casette tape or something (that was what I was told), is it an option to have a central 'transmission' to many mosques? For a low-tech solution, someone could play centrally (or even speak live) at one place, and relay it by telephone to a number of mosques. So, all at exactly the same time, all the same text so no confusion by hearing two different texts at the same time.
Assuming that each Imam would like to give his personal message (don't know if that is true, just assuming, if this is not the case then disregard the next part): each Imam could take turns to speak to all mosques, like one Imam on Monday, another on Tuesday etc.
For a more hi-tech (and better fidelity) solution you could replay a central message through the internet to any mosque that wants to air it. In this case, people who cannot hear the recitation for any reason can listen to it at another moment.
I don't know if I am talking sense, I may look stupid because I don't know the requirements for Islam, but just trying to think about a technical solution.
Edit: corrected spelling
Jan Didden
It's most probable that each Imam wants to be heard in his area.
As an audiophile, my suggestions are of course audiophile related.
First, In all areas of the world I constantly marvel at how terrible the public address systems usually are, in or outside of any type of building. Getting decent reproduction will help the problem. This might include a low distortion recording method if the prayers are recorded. Recording quality is a big factor. If the organization had a simple and inexpensive recording area with a quality microphone, the Imams could record the prayers with high quality. The digital recordng could be played back with a CD player or on a computer.
An idea is to have an organization with knowlege of sound systems purchase decent sounding system components in large quantity. Buying in quantity would save money so that better quality components could be used and would make buying the system more appealing- Why buy a crummy system elsewhere when you can get a good one for the same or similar price?
Then, while it is probably tempting to have the loudspeakers high, and in the center of the mosque, It would be less distorted and interfere less with other close-by mosques if there were many smaller loudspeakers distributed around the outer perimeter of the building, or building grounds. Since each speaker is smaller, it would be less expensive so the overall cost might actually be less.
The sound level could still be very high in the area around the mosque..
As far as announcing at the same time, there are many ways to do this, but the various mosques need to WANT to broadcast at the same time. Perhaps there could be a broadcast on radio or on computers with a message, spiritual or otherwise ,and exactly at the end of it everyone starts.
Ok, to sum up: A volunteer organization develops and assembles a reasonably priced speaker and amplifier system that is designed to be distributed around the perimeter of the Mosques. Larger mosques have more of the same speakers if they need more coverage.
Then:
The Imam makes a high quality recording at the organization and it is put on a CD which can be played through the system, which would include a low cost CD player.
Or possibly :
They could also customize an inexpensive computer that would play back recorded messages, when triggered by a central location. The Imam of each mosque would come to the organization and record his prayers. These would be loaded onto the computer right there, and various people from the mosque could be instructed on the (not-complicated) way to make sure it is operating. A simple program could be written to use different recordings on different days if that is a requirement. The organization would have to provide an on-site repair service to ensure that all is operating properly...
Of course as Jan mentioned if the prayers could be exactly the same at any one time with a rotating schedule so every Imam gets to broadcast to the entire city that would dramatically help as the differen mosques wouldn't be competing with each other regarding the sound. Probably this would be very difficult to implement though..
As an audiophile, my suggestions are of course audiophile related.
First, In all areas of the world I constantly marvel at how terrible the public address systems usually are, in or outside of any type of building. Getting decent reproduction will help the problem. This might include a low distortion recording method if the prayers are recorded. Recording quality is a big factor. If the organization had a simple and inexpensive recording area with a quality microphone, the Imams could record the prayers with high quality. The digital recordng could be played back with a CD player or on a computer.
An idea is to have an organization with knowlege of sound systems purchase decent sounding system components in large quantity. Buying in quantity would save money so that better quality components could be used and would make buying the system more appealing- Why buy a crummy system elsewhere when you can get a good one for the same or similar price?
Then, while it is probably tempting to have the loudspeakers high, and in the center of the mosque, It would be less distorted and interfere less with other close-by mosques if there were many smaller loudspeakers distributed around the outer perimeter of the building, or building grounds. Since each speaker is smaller, it would be less expensive so the overall cost might actually be less.
The sound level could still be very high in the area around the mosque..
As far as announcing at the same time, there are many ways to do this, but the various mosques need to WANT to broadcast at the same time. Perhaps there could be a broadcast on radio or on computers with a message, spiritual or otherwise ,and exactly at the end of it everyone starts.
Ok, to sum up: A volunteer organization develops and assembles a reasonably priced speaker and amplifier system that is designed to be distributed around the perimeter of the Mosques. Larger mosques have more of the same speakers if they need more coverage.
Then:
The Imam makes a high quality recording at the organization and it is put on a CD which can be played through the system, which would include a low cost CD player.
Or possibly :
They could also customize an inexpensive computer that would play back recorded messages, when triggered by a central location. The Imam of each mosque would come to the organization and record his prayers. These would be loaded onto the computer right there, and various people from the mosque could be instructed on the (not-complicated) way to make sure it is operating. A simple program could be written to use different recordings on different days if that is a requirement. The organization would have to provide an on-site repair service to ensure that all is operating properly...
Of course as Jan mentioned if the prayers could be exactly the same at any one time with a rotating schedule so every Imam gets to broadcast to the entire city that would dramatically help as the differen mosques wouldn't be competing with each other regarding the sound. Probably this would be very difficult to implement though..
I don't know how practical this tochnology is, but it's the first thing that popped into my head........
http://www.directionalsound-usa.com/hss/index.php
http://www.directionalsound-usa.com/hss/index.php
I have never before heard of Imam's call to prayers being a playback of a recording. I could sometimes hear the imam fiddling with the microphone. Sometimes there would be a new imam, and his melody would be somewhat different. I don't know about distributing a common sound track. I always assumed that each mosque had its own imam who broadacst his own call to prayer.
However, if there could be a common sound track or live broadcast, it seems a simple matter to use a radio-linked system that would activate on receipt of a start code and turn off on receiving an end code. That is: turn on, receive and play the broadcast through a PA loudspeaker and then turn off.
Khadija, if you could agree on a simple principle of operation (that is, radio link with common broadcast or synchronising multiple imams's song via communications signal), then all you'd need to do is put the job out to tender. Let the professionals solve the how-to (technical) problem.
However, if there could be a common sound track or live broadcast, it seems a simple matter to use a radio-linked system that would activate on receipt of a start code and turn off on receiving an end code. That is: turn on, receive and play the broadcast through a PA loudspeaker and then turn off.
Khadija, if you could agree on a simple principle of operation (that is, radio link with common broadcast or synchronising multiple imams's song via communications signal), then all you'd need to do is put the job out to tender. Let the professionals solve the how-to (technical) problem.
Synchronisation
Hi
Referring to diy member Shaun's tender suggestion, a ready-made solution may already exist. In my days as a watch distributor, I had dealings with a Swiss firm Bosshard? who manufactured synchronised time and voice? display systems. They used a time-base located at Reunion. Perhaps you should enquire with them.
There is also the British firm of Tannoy but I'm not sure if they are still involved with what you require.
For all I know, there may well even be local firms in my country, able to provide answers and equipment.
Good luck with your enquiries.
bulgin
Hi
Referring to diy member Shaun's tender suggestion, a ready-made solution may already exist. In my days as a watch distributor, I had dealings with a Swiss firm Bosshard? who manufactured synchronised time and voice? display systems. They used a time-base located at Reunion. Perhaps you should enquire with them.
There is also the British firm of Tannoy but I'm not sure if they are still involved with what you require.
For all I know, there may well even be local firms in my country, able to provide answers and equipment.
Good luck with your enquiries.
bulgin
I must mention that I really do not see the synchronisation of calls to prayer as a useful issue to spend time and money on. Where I grew up I could always hear the calls to prayer from two locations. Even when I lived with my grandmother a few kilometres away, it was again from two different sources that I heard it. At worst it would be out by a few seconds. It never bothered me that it was not synchronised. I just knew that it was of importance to some people, and that was that...
Re: Synchronization of �Calls to Prayer� in the Arab world
Very simple solution: Use an AM radio transmitter. Broadcast the audio from a radio station. then every place who needs to can tune the radio to that station and hook up the radio to a loadspeaker system. If noise poolution is an issue then the only option is to use smaller speakers and more of them so that none of them needs to be very loud.
I doubt this would work because I think they LIKE the current system where each generates it's own unique audio signal. Then all you can do is find a better way to keep the clocks in sync. The best way to do this is to install NTP in a computer. NTP is a network time protocol that can keep computer clocks synce to the milli second level even on network connections that are slow. If you need better or don't have a network NTP can use a GPS reciever.
I think the radio method with many local small speakers is the best low-tech option. But some may object for cultural reasons.
Very simple solution: Use an AM radio transmitter. Broadcast the audio from a radio station. then every place who needs to can tune the radio to that station and hook up the radio to a loadspeaker system. If noise poolution is an issue then the only option is to use smaller speakers and more of them so that none of them needs to be very loud.
I doubt this would work because I think they LIKE the current system where each generates it's own unique audio signal. Then all you can do is find a better way to keep the clocks in sync. The best way to do this is to install NTP in a computer. NTP is a network time protocol that can keep computer clocks synce to the milli second level even on network connections that are slow. If you need better or don't have a network NTP can use a GPS reciever.
I think the radio method with many local small speakers is the best low-tech option. But some may object for cultural reasons.
Re: Re: Synchronization of �Calls to Prayer� in the Arab world
Atomic alarm clocks are cheap nowadays http://www.radiocontrolledclock.com/rcalarmclocks.html etc.
ChrisA said:
Atomic alarm clocks are cheap nowadays http://www.radiocontrolledclock.com/rcalarmclocks.html etc.
The call for prayer cannot be a recorded message. It should be played back in real time. Not sure if RF link idea could work as in my view the Call has to be made from every Masjid by one of the people attending the prayer.
Are you discussing the situation in prayer? What do you think the technology should do here. You could select a different Masjid where the Imam has pleasenter sound. In Pakistan, even the Jahry prayer is not that much loud that it would interfere with other Masjid,s audience. The sound is usually kept just enough to reach the people in prayer hall. Sorry if I couldn't understand your point.
Are you discussing the situation in prayer? What do you think the technology should do here. You could select a different Masjid where the Imam has pleasenter sound. In Pakistan, even the Jahry prayer is not that much loud that it would interfere with other Masjid,s audience. The sound is usually kept just enough to reach the people in prayer hall. Sorry if I couldn't understand your point.
Link in the first post is no more available, neither is OP.
In my view very accurate synchronization is not possible. Prayer times are set by the position of the SUN on the sky, which changes with the day of the year and the geographical position of the Masjid. I am unable to say if this time difference can come within the audible range. So the synchronization could be done only for a limited area, within which the prayer time doesn't change much.
In my view very accurate synchronization is not possible. Prayer times are set by the position of the SUN on the sky, which changes with the day of the year and the geographical position of the Masjid. I am unable to say if this time difference can come within the audible range. So the synchronization could be done only for a limited area, within which the prayer time doesn't change much.
WAAAH 1st Post !!!
Hallo Everybody !!!
Pleased ta meet you all (eerrk shouldn't this be in the intro thread
)
Well you know the drill, lurker coming outta hiding to finally take the plunge and join the fray (so don't kill me when I say I kinda like Bose
)
Alright as a Muslim and an audiophile thought I'd swoop in and clear up some of the finer details so you all can have and easier time with the suggestions
1) The Islamic call to prayer is divided into the following two categories
A)The Athan
The Athan goes off 5 times a day everyday and its purpose is to alert all
the muslims in the area to drop what they're doing and come to pray
(one of the words of the words er phrases er Verses ? goes Come To Prayer Come To Providence [don't hold me on the translation])
B)The Iqama
Depending on which prayer, this follows on about 20 minutes after the initial Athan and is called directly before the prayer starts to sort of tell everyone WE'RE ABOUT TO START Its a sort of abridged version of the Athan
Now both of these are broadcasted over a large urban area through a PA system (usually an Archaic distorted hornspeaker atop the minaret that accurately conveys how your sound system shouldn't sound !!
)
The distinction is that the actual prayer itself is not usually broadcasted over the PA and is lead by the leader of the mosque indoors (the imam) now the leader of the mosque/congregation is the same guy who did the call to prayer Athan/Iqama.
2) The call to prayer is not recorded
The call to prayer is not recorded and is usually conducted by the first person available in the mosque . I've done this about 5 times in my life, just because the Imam was late !!! and since I'm your average Joe... er Ahmed ?? I even screwed it up once (imagine everyone in a five block radius hearing you screw up live and in surround sound !!! [courtesy of building reflection] )
3) Timing
Usually the timing's are only off by a minute or two where I come from and only rarely do I hear them screw up (once I heard a guy about 10 minutes late call to prayer !!! I can tell you, that guy had to be the most embarrased Imam ever)
BUT I know at least nearby Qatar (Yes the same one from the transformers movie !!) have implemented a system in which an synchronized in-mosque timing and alarm system alerts the Imams on when the appropriate timing to start the call to prayer should be (the imams are still late sometimes though )
4) Auditory GPS
The call to prayer has always been live and called by people with different voices and that in my opinion is a good thing, Why you ask ?? cause if your're on the road and the call to prayer lights up in an islamic country chances are you're gonna hear more than one mosque at the same time, the distinct differences of the voices and (obviously) the volume help you pinpoint exactly where the mosque is, This is harder to do (for me anyways) when the voices are similar and its hardest when a badly placed building reflection is thrown into the mix !!
Finally, I was thinking about what we could do to improve the (admittedly) sometimes nasal, screechy voices of some of the imams and the clipped and distorted sounds of the minaret PA systems and in-mosque sound systems. Simple
Get voice lessons for the worst of the imams
Ina Allahu Jameel YuHib Al Jamaal - Islamic Hadith
God Is Beautiful And Loves Beauty
-Nothing wrong with a beautiful voice
As for the sound system easy TURN THE MINARET INTO A GIANT 360 ESL (i'd like to see the transformer )
Cool thing about mosques is that some actually have little audiophilesque amp cupboards hooked up to the mosque sound systems
P.S I agree with shaun Syncing shouldn't be a big focus point they're pretty well synched up and the Qatari synced clocked system (kinda like what Westerp suggested) should be enough
Best sound I ever heard in a mosque was one from a Bose sound system so you know theres room for improvement Especially since its a fixed place with no seats only bookshelves just need some room dampening and some non directional speakers and a decent amp to sound Great !!
but keeping on point I think Khadija was asking about improving the PA system which granted my solution can be a little umm impractical.
Anyways Sorry for the long first message !!
hope this clears things up for you guys,
oh and THANKS FOR THE GREAT FORUM !!
Hallo Everybody !!!
Pleased ta meet you all (eerrk shouldn't this be in the intro thread
)Well you know the drill, lurker coming outta hiding to finally take the plunge and join the fray (so don't kill me when I say I kinda like Bose
)Alright as a Muslim and an audiophile thought I'd swoop in and clear up some of the finer details so you all can have and easier time with the suggestions
1) The Islamic call to prayer is divided into the following two categories
A)The Athan
The Athan goes off 5 times a day everyday and its purpose is to alert all
the muslims in the area to drop what they're doing and come to pray
(one of the words of the words er phrases er Verses ? goes Come To Prayer Come To Providence [don't hold me on the translation])
B)The Iqama
Depending on which prayer, this follows on about 20 minutes after the initial Athan and is called directly before the prayer starts to sort of tell everyone WE'RE ABOUT TO START Its a sort of abridged version of the Athan
Now both of these are broadcasted over a large urban area through a PA system (usually an Archaic distorted hornspeaker atop the minaret that accurately conveys how your sound system shouldn't sound !!
)The distinction is that the actual prayer itself is not usually broadcasted over the PA and is lead by the leader of the mosque indoors (the imam) now the leader of the mosque/congregation is the same guy who did the call to prayer Athan/Iqama.
2) The call to prayer is not recorded
The call to prayer is not recorded and is usually conducted by the first person available in the mosque . I've done this about 5 times in my life, just because the Imam was late !!! and since I'm your average Joe... er Ahmed ?? I even screwed it up once (imagine everyone in a five block radius hearing you screw up live and in surround sound !!! [courtesy of building reflection]
)3) Timing
Usually the timing's are only off by a minute or two where I come from and only rarely do I hear them screw up (once I heard a guy about 10 minutes late call to prayer !!! I can tell you, that guy had to be the most embarrased Imam ever)
BUT I know at least nearby Qatar (Yes the same one from the transformers movie !!) have implemented a system in which an synchronized in-mosque timing and alarm system alerts the Imams on when the appropriate timing to start the call to prayer should be (the imams are still late sometimes though
)4) Auditory GPS
The call to prayer has always been live and called by people with different voices and that in my opinion is a good thing, Why you ask ?? cause if your're on the road and the call to prayer lights up in an islamic country chances are you're gonna hear more than one mosque at the same time, the distinct differences of the voices and (obviously) the volume help you pinpoint exactly where the mosque is, This is harder to do (for me anyways) when the voices are similar and its hardest when a badly placed building reflection is thrown into the mix !!
Finally, I was thinking about what we could do to improve the (admittedly) sometimes nasal, screechy voices of some of the imams and the clipped and distorted sounds of the minaret PA systems and in-mosque sound systems. Simple
Get voice lessons for the worst of the imams
Ina Allahu Jameel YuHib Al Jamaal - Islamic Hadith
God Is Beautiful And Loves Beauty
-Nothing wrong with a beautiful voice
As for the sound system easy TURN THE MINARET INTO A GIANT 360 ESL (i'd like to see the transformer
)Cool thing about mosques is that some actually have little audiophilesque amp cupboards hooked up to the mosque sound systems
P.S I agree with shaun Syncing shouldn't be a big focus point they're pretty well synched up and the Qatari synced clocked system (kinda like what Westerp suggested) should be enough
Best sound I ever heard in a mosque was one from a Bose sound system so you know theres room for improvement
Especially since its a fixed place with no seats only bookshelves just need some room dampening and some non directional speakers and a decent amp to sound Great !!but keeping on point I think Khadija was asking about improving the PA system which granted my solution can be a little umm impractical.
Anyways Sorry for the long first message !!
hope this clears things up for you guys,
oh and THANKS FOR THE GREAT FORUM !!
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