Forgive me if this is a stupid question, 
but I was wondering if I could run the surround and center channels from my onkyo receiver via the speaker cables out to a preamp (with a high level input?) and then to a T-amp like a modded sonic impact or Trends Audio.
I have a Sonic coming on the way for my stereo speakers in my room but would like to hook it up to a 5.1 if possible. I will be using the Fostex FE167E speakers. for both applications.
but I was wondering if I could run the surround and center channels from my onkyo receiver via the speaker cables out to a preamp (with a high level input?) and then to a T-amp like a modded sonic impact or Trends Audio.I have a Sonic coming on the way for my stereo speakers in my room but would like to hook it up to a 5.1 if possible. I will be using the Fostex FE167E speakers. for both applications.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't being too descriptive 
I have a 5.1 receiver but the t-amps sound sooo much better. I'm driving efficient fostex drivers so power is no problem. I can't figure out how to get the analog sound out though, the only usable outboard connections are for the speakers.
Problem 2, is i'm not sure if the preout could handle the wattage from the Onkyo, or if it can be rigged up to accept this signal instead of the RCA.
So I drew up a diagram....Basically the first Preamp get a signal from the front L/R on the Onkyo, the preamp sends the signal to the T-amp, which powers the Front L/R Speakers. Now the Onkyo sends the RL/RR to the 2nd preamp, which goes the the 2nd T-amp etc.. The center gets powered by the 3rd preamp/t-amp which is only using on channel. The subwoofer gets powered by the rca sub out on the onkyo.
On the Diagram, magenta wires are L/R speaker wires, and the Blue represents the RCA cables.
Does this make any sense or is the outside the realm of do-ability?? I guess the big question is can you convert the preamps to accept the higher powered lines from the Onkyo?
I have a 5.1 receiver but the t-amps sound sooo much better. I'm driving efficient fostex drivers so power is no problem. I can't figure out how to get the analog sound out though, the only usable outboard connections are for the speakers.
Problem 2, is i'm not sure if the preout could handle the wattage from the Onkyo, or if it can be rigged up to accept this signal instead of the RCA.
So I drew up a diagram....Basically the first Preamp get a signal from the front L/R on the Onkyo, the preamp sends the signal to the T-amp, which powers the Front L/R Speakers. Now the Onkyo sends the RL/RR to the 2nd preamp, which goes the the 2nd T-amp etc.. The center gets powered by the 3rd preamp/t-amp which is only using on channel. The subwoofer gets powered by the rca sub out on the onkyo.
On the Diagram, magenta wires are L/R speaker wires, and the Blue represents the RCA cables.
Does this make any sense or is the outside the realm of do-ability?? I guess the big question is can you convert the preamps to accept the higher powered lines from the Onkyo?
Hmmm..... Do I understand you right that you want to use the speaker outs of the Onkyo to drive the T-amps?
If you think the Onkyo is bad now, just wait til you've sent it thru the T-Amps.
It could be done, but it would not sound nice.
Your problem seems to be that you need to volume control 5 signals. And the Onkyo does not offer volume controlled line-level outputs. Correct? (not many HT amps do)
For the setup you want, you'll have to hack the Onkyo or get a 5 gang volume pot - and trimers. No fun.....
If you think the Onkyo is bad now, just wait til you've sent it thru the T-Amps.
It could be done, but it would not sound nice.Your problem seems to be that you need to volume control 5 signals. And the Onkyo does not offer volume controlled line-level outputs. Correct? (not many HT amps do)
For the setup you want, you'll have to hack the Onkyo or get a 5 gang volume pot - and trimers. No fun.....
Ah nuts 
I was hoping that that I could use the 24/97 DAC and use one of the stright-through settings to pass through the receiver without colorizing the signal.
So the idea is that since the Onkyo signal is sub-par to begin with, it wont sound any better with the T-amp? Also all components ingoing (DVD, PS3,Xbox,Cable, etc...) are all using a digital HDMI signal.
The Onkyo (SR606) does have a menu to increase the volume/gain for each channel including sub. Is this what you mean?
I was hoping that when the volume on the Onkyo was decreased the t-amp or preamp would then get quiter since the signal is quieter....not sure if thats how it would actually work or not. I was also hoping if that would then work I could leave them all turned up and inside a project box with a master power switch.
I was hoping that that I could use the 24/97 DAC and use one of the stright-through settings to pass through the receiver without colorizing the signal.
So the idea is that since the Onkyo signal is sub-par to begin with, it wont sound any better with the T-amp? Also all components ingoing (DVD, PS3,Xbox,Cable, etc...) are all using a digital HDMI signal.
The Onkyo (SR606) does have a menu to increase the volume/gain for each channel including sub. Is this what you mean?
I was hoping that when the volume on the Onkyo was decreased the t-amp or preamp would then get quiter since the signal is quieter....not sure if thats how it would actually work or not. I was also hoping if that would then work I could leave them all turned up and inside a project box with a master power switch.
Running the speaker outputs from the Onkyo to a line level converter, then to T-Amps won't accomplish anything, you'll still be amplifying a dirty signal. Actually it would probably degrade the sound even more.
You COULD get out the soldering iron and tap into the outputs BEFORE the amplifier stage inside the Onkyo, and run that to separate T-Amps.
Though its still a toss up, unless you know where the distortion/coloration is coming from- is it the processor stage, or the amplifier stage in the Onkyo?
You COULD get out the soldering iron and tap into the outputs BEFORE the amplifier stage inside the Onkyo, and run that to separate T-Amps.
Though its still a toss up, unless you know where the distortion/coloration is coming from- is it the processor stage, or the amplifier stage in the Onkyo?
One good thing I found out, the last time I tested the speakers on the onkyo I forgot to change the crossover off/full range so they where crossed at 100hz. I lugged the receiver to my computer room to do a side by side comparison with the Sonic Impact Gen 2. both hooked up to my Mac-Pro's soundcard. The Onkyo really isn't bad at all, The sonic impact Gen 2 was a lot warmer and fuller and for home theater it shouldn't be that noticeable.
I never realized the acoustics in the family room where so bad.
Also the speakers are being broke in inside 15x18x12 cardboard boxes until the boxes are built, so that doesnt help much either.
One thing I couldn't figure out though is why I had to crank the volume 60-70% to get close to levels of the t-amp's 15 watts??? (same room) The onkyo should have 90watts min per channel / 90watts rms @8ohms ...hmmm
Also the Onkyo SR706 has RCA preouts so I supose I could swap out receivers later on if even needed.
I never realized the acoustics in the family room where so bad.
Also the speakers are being broke in inside 15x18x12 cardboard boxes until the boxes are built, so that doesnt help much either.
One thing I couldn't figure out though is why I had to crank the volume 60-70% to get close to levels of the t-amp's 15 watts??? (same room) The onkyo should have 90watts min per channel / 90watts rms @8ohms ...hmmm
Also the Onkyo SR706 has RCA preouts so I supose I could swap out receivers later on if even needed.
SR606...
I've listened to this Onkyo receiver(SR606) for a bit with the ultra revealing Jordan JX92S drivers (in the "Spirits")...the Onkyo receivers are very good, regardless of how inexpensive they can be had for. My choice for affordable but good HT receivers (and apparently they are now making a quite good integrated amplifier as well)
The Sonic Impact gen2 may have a somewhat nicer sound, but depending on the loudspeakers being used, may run outta breath before the Onkyo ever breaks a sweat. What speakers are you planning on using?
The Onkyo may have a logarithmic volume control, whilst the SI may have a linear one...that would certainly explain having to "crank the Onkyo".
peace
stew
I've listened to this Onkyo receiver(SR606) for a bit with the ultra revealing Jordan JX92S drivers (in the "Spirits")...the Onkyo receivers are very good, regardless of how inexpensive they can be had for. My choice for affordable but good HT receivers (and apparently they are now making a quite good integrated amplifier as well)
The Sonic Impact gen2 may have a somewhat nicer sound, but depending on the loudspeakers being used, may run outta breath before the Onkyo ever breaks a sweat. What speakers are you planning on using?
The Onkyo may have a logarithmic volume control, whilst the SI may have a linear one...that would certainly explain having to "crank the Onkyo".
peace
stew
FE167E for an SR606...
er, not what I might call a perfect match, but do-able..
You might consider what some have suggested to me in the past (Nelson Pass, planet10 to name two...), place a 1Ω or 2Ω 10 watt resistor in series with the full range driver. It reduces the dampening of the amplifier and allows the full ranger to behave the way it is intended to. You might also do some "extreme basket tricks" (do a search here at diyAudio.com), and some of planet10's further mods to that driver (EnABL and coating the speaker cone....).
If you had drivers that were less sensitive, I'd leave the resistors out, but the Fostex drivers seem to like the low dampening factor that low output tube and class T (or D) amplifiers provide.
Regardless, whether you design the speakers or use an existing design (such as those from Bob Brines' ), there is a pride of DIY and ownership that has more value than any potential savings...If unable to do a great job on cabinets, pay a local cabinet maker or production wood working shop to make them for. As always I state my "standard" rant:
based on the cost of the drivers (and the quality of them), please construct the boxes out of a superior material, such as Baltic Birch.
peace
stew
er, not what I might call a perfect match, but do-able..
You might consider what some have suggested to me in the past (Nelson Pass, planet10 to name two...), place a 1Ω or 2Ω 10 watt resistor in series with the full range driver. It reduces the dampening of the amplifier and allows the full ranger to behave the way it is intended to. You might also do some "extreme basket tricks" (do a search here at diyAudio.com), and some of planet10's further mods to that driver (EnABL and coating the speaker cone....).
If you had drivers that were less sensitive, I'd leave the resistors out, but the Fostex drivers seem to like the low dampening factor that low output tube and class T (or D) amplifiers provide.
Regardless, whether you design the speakers or use an existing design (such as those from Bob Brines' ), there is a pride of DIY and ownership that has more value than any potential savings...If unable to do a great job on cabinets, pay a local cabinet maker or production wood working shop to make them for. As always I state my "standard" rant:
based on the cost of the drivers (and the quality of them), please construct the boxes out of a superior material, such as Baltic Birch.
peace
stew
Thanks for the comments Nanook
I do have a resistor and inductor in place. The woodshop part of the project will be the easy part....all the electronics are the hard part (though now I have a new hobby to delve into) I have some ribbon stripped mahogany veneer on the way for it, finished with some dark reddish stain (i think) and a satin oil finish. These will be for my parents for christmas powered by a modded sonic impact gen 2 amp. I'll make sure to post some pics when finished.
I might also build the same for myself, but would a pair of the JX92S 's be good for home theater mains? I will be using the Onkyo with some sort of DIY center and my Klipsch satalites for the surrounds. Price isn't a huge deal breaker but the Jordans are pricey and if a certain fostex will be just as nice for HT, then so be it. (researching into the FX120's)
I do have a resistor and inductor in place. The woodshop part of the project will be the easy part....all the electronics are the hard part (though now I have a new hobby to delve into) I have some ribbon stripped mahogany veneer on the way for it, finished with some dark reddish stain (i think) and a satin oil finish. These will be for my parents for christmas powered by a modded sonic impact gen 2 amp. I'll make sure to post some pics when finished.
I might also build the same for myself, but would a pair of the JX92S 's be good for home theater mains? I will be using the Onkyo with some sort of DIY center and my Klipsch satalites for the surrounds. Price isn't a huge deal breaker but the Jordans are pricey and if a certain fostex will be just as nice for HT, then so be it. (researching into the FX120's)
I had the Onkyo SR602 a few years back. It was a very very good sounding receiver. Sounded sweet with my Magnepan MMGs...before discounting or modding it, make sure all settings are set correctly. They should make your Fostex sing - try the resistor trick on the FE too...
I reluctantly sold the SR602 for a Pioneer I thought I was really going to like, but didn't, at all.
Actually, had I not sold the Onkyo, I would have never got into this hobby and built the amps I now have...'
'
Out of all the audio crud you can buy at any electronic shop (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc) Onkyo would be my only choice.
I reluctantly sold the SR602 for a Pioneer I thought I was really going to like, but didn't, at all.
Actually, had I not sold the Onkyo, I would have never got into this hobby and built the amps I now have...'
'Out of all the audio crud you can buy at any electronic shop (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc) Onkyo would be my only choice.
please go to
Affordable$$Audio and look in December's issue (it may not be posted yet)
Read "DIY Hell: the Spirit of Orion loudspeaker project", by me
Set up correctly I believe that the Jordans and the Onkyo can be a pretty nice setup. The Jordans are not very efficient, but the Onkyo has some guts. Although the Jordans do deserve better amplification to be at there best, the Onkyo is a good respectable piece of HT equipment. It can also be configured for 2 channel operation, if I remember correctly. Nice thing with the Spirits is that there is no need for additional sub(s), as they already have one per channel. There is no need for additional amplification, as the plate amps are very robust. There is no need for a crossover, because the plate amps have a built in one, and it is quite good.
Total cost of the project was in the neighbourhood of $1000, for the Jordans, the subs, the plate amps, the wood (Baltic Birch ply, 18mm, 13 layers), the finish, binding posts, dampening material, etc.
The really cool thing is what they can do with 2 channel and "Dolby 2.2 surround" (I just coined that, but basically 2 speakers, and 2 subs...).
stew
Affordable$$Audio and look in December's issue (it may not be posted yet)
Read "DIY Hell: the Spirit of Orion loudspeaker project", by me
Set up correctly I believe that the Jordans and the Onkyo can be a pretty nice setup. The Jordans are not very efficient, but the Onkyo has some guts. Although the Jordans do deserve better amplification to be at there best, the Onkyo is a good respectable piece of HT equipment. It can also be configured for 2 channel operation, if I remember correctly. Nice thing with the Spirits is that there is no need for additional sub(s), as they already have one per channel. There is no need for additional amplification, as the plate amps are very robust. There is no need for a crossover, because the plate amps have a built in one, and it is quite good.
Total cost of the project was in the neighbourhood of $1000, for the Jordans, the subs, the plate amps, the wood (Baltic Birch ply, 18mm, 13 layers), the finish, binding posts, dampening material, etc.
The really cool thing is what they can do with 2 channel and "Dolby 2.2 surround" (I just coined that, but basically 2 speakers, and 2 subs...).
stew
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