AES Objective-Subjective Forum

[SY]

An interesting note from John Vanderkooy:

Recently an article on audio quality by Meyer and Moran (J. Audio Eng. Soc. vol. 55, pp. 775–779, [2007 Sep.]) has given rise to a number of letters sent to the Journal. There is a lot of intense debate and opinion on this topic that probably would be interesting to many AES members, and this might actually help to bring out the key aspects of the issue. Accordingly, we feel that an AES online forum that allows members to give their opinions and experiences will be valuable. You can access this forum on our website: <http://www.aes.org/journal/> and then click on Online Journal. To view the complete explanation of this issue click here: <http://www.aes.org/journal/online/JAES_V56/7_8/note.pdf> John Vanderkooy, editor

The linked Editor's Note is also quite interesting. I'll look forward to the comments posted there.

[adx]

I can't find the forum from their email, perhaps I didn't look hard enough.

But the results are unsurprising, and I'm an audio manufacturer with a vested interest in perpetuating myths which might result in audiophiles parting with their cash

I've noticed a very clear (and surprising) difference between SACD 2 ch and the CD layer in informal listening tests. I've also done unrelated blind testing (compression codecs) in which I was certain I couldn't tell a difference, but consistently got 10/10 right. Subjectivism is a strange thing, and not necessarily "wrong".

Anyway this paper seems to have triggered some unusually intelligent discussions on other forums, considering the subject matter. It'll be interesting to see how it progresses here.

[lineup]

The authors of the paper were allowed to respond to these letters, and, after exchanges and reviews of both the letters and responses, we have chosen not to publish any of them.

None of the letters had sufficient scientific content to warrant publication, when we applied the Journal’s usual criteria.

By scientific content we mean that setups and methodologies must be repeatable by others.
In addition, listening tests must have at least some blind aspects,
so that assertions of audibility are not simply subjective but have some objective basis.

We realize that this may meet with opposition from some in the audio community.

We realize that this may meet with opposition
from some in the audio community.

This is called insight
To know that your policy may meet opposition from others' opinions.
From those not sharing your publishing policy values.


The criteria for publication here at www.diyaudio.com is no way this strict.
We allow many pseudo audio facts and many not scientific at all statements to pass.
And this is as it should be

We are one DIY Audio Community & all members discussion forum.
Not an Engineering Society.
Let us be happy for this


Lineup

*** AES = Audio Engineering Society

[audio-kraut]

None of the letters had sufficient scientific content to warrant publication, when we applied the Journal’s usual criteria.

That is quite the correct approach for a journal that calls itself based on science.
For the bs - there are any numbers of forums available, including this one.

[Pjotr]

Originally posted by adx
..............It'll be interesting to see how it progresses here. [/B]

That will be a discussion between AES members then. The on line journal is not available for non-members.

[lineup]

Hello all members.
[qutoe]Subjective as John Curl or destroyer X.
Or more Objective as
syn08 and me self, Lineup.[/quote]

We have this very good, in my subjective opinion !!!,
Objetive vs. Subjective topic:
Audio Lies
10 common Audio Myths categorized by Peter Aczel

The last post posted is this one.
It still has not got no good reply .....
Probably because no one from the other camp
has got a some good enough repsonse or reply
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...94#post1545394

by bulgin

Hi

So, with great anticipation, I installed the Quasar MC1 on my sme V and put some tried and trusty songs from the Knobbly Kneecaps' spring of '72 album on the platter.

And what a let down, folks.

The cart literally screeched, whatever bass was there was soft and ill-defined. BUT, being the kind soul of a reviewer, I decided to persevere.

Hour after hour I spun them vinyls. Mrs Kossler first ran out of beers. Deep in to the night it went. Around 4am of day 7 I sent the missus out for a plate of samoosas and raspberry shakes.

After scoffing the lot, I made a pitstop and checked the oil in the 301's bearing well, re-adjusted the VTA, SRA and VTF.

Ah checked my Braytling ZeroTime-master GMT's elapsed time counter, which showed exactly 100 hours gone and let fly with anodder disc.

What a revelation! The Quasar MC1 had miraculously opened up. Inky black blacks, wide soundstage, superlative mids.

Just goes to show. Carts need to be played to death for at least 100 hours before ya kin hear the difference between 120 dollars and 5'000dollars.

Will this do for another "Audio Lie"?

bulgin

[fredex]

Originally posted by adx
.............Subjectivism is a strange thing, and not necessarily "wrong"...............

You got that right......about being a strange thing. I am not a manufacturer and so are in the same position as an opposition politician and can say things that those 'in power' can't. Apart from a few strange folk most people are up to speed and have heard of DBTs applied to audio and its counter intuitive results. If they are into audio like me they will have tried a blind test and been amazed or deeply disturbed.
I hope we get some good dialog.

[lineup]

Originally posted by fredex

I hope we get some good dialog.

was that one reply to my post, fredex?

in this case i do not really get your message or response at all

funnny how people will not want to see = ignore

[fredex]

Originally posted by lineup
was that one reply to my post, fredex?
in this case i do not really get your message or response at all
funnny how people will not want to see = ignore

No lineup I was quoting adx. Nothing to do with your post.

[soongsc]

I have not read the article, but I think that everone will have an opinion based on what they have experienced in the pass. Only those that can explore the possibilities in a devoted manner will find new experience and truth. Most people that cannot do this just want something to talk about. I am interested what kind of people will visit this thread.