Compression of water (split from Waveguides)

[MJL21193]

Originally posted by Ed LaFontaine

I think you conclude from reading the word "maximum" that it describes a condition for density not to be exceeded. It can be exceeded when the standard conditions change. The presence of sound waves is not part of "standard conditions"

Well, maximum means what it means - no more. Density will not be exceeded under the unchanged conditions. I merely observe that the introduction of energy will change the temperature condition and therefore reduce density, not increase it.
If that doesn't make sense to you, I don't know how else to put it.

Originally posted by Ed LaFontaine

Be careful, you have almost admitted to the compression of water by using those statements.

I think you should re-read what I have posted.

[hpasternack]

Maybe I would have only .01 posts per day if I were to proof read all of my contributions with the same vigor as you read yours. I do pretty good considering.

That should be, "I do pretty well..."

I'm glad that you feel there is hope for me, and I am impressed that you have "compressed" your posting frequency down from 1 in a hundred days to voice your thoughts here.

It looks as though my optimism about you was a bit, well... optimistic.

What is it with this fixation on posting frequency? I've done more than my share of posting over the years, round and about. Quality over quantity, you know. I am so happy I finally learned not to drive myself to distraction trying to prevail in arguments like this. LOL.

Not what I said at all actually.

Yes, you did. You just don't realize it.

There are enough clues here for you to straighten this thing out in your head. And an infinitesimal probability that you're right and everyone else is wrong. Now, you just have to hop to it!

Good luck to you, John.

-Henry

[despotic931]

Wow, reading this thread has totally made my evening!

I am curious when you're book debunking the entire scientific community's theories about the process of sound waves traveling through a physical medium will be published. I believe it will be equally entertaining to read. Out of curiosity, what education, title, or career do you have that has allowed you to make such discoveries?

Keep up the good fight!

-Justin

[GK]

So this monotonous humdrum stuff is still more interesting than Oluchi's surgically enhanced hooters then?

EGADS!

[Ed LaFontaine]

I merely observe that the introduction of energy will change the temperature condition and therefore reduce density, not increase it

John, You're out on the limb by yourself.

Good luck to you, John.

Keep up the good fight!

Have a nice day!

[auplater]

The real question should be..

"Can sound travel in a black hole. After all, don't they have infinite density?"

Maybe what we're all hearing is the summation of all those "strings" vibrating in various ways at the sub atomic level, eh?

John, don't quit your day job...

I used to think your posts were fairly informative and coherent.. but, unfortunately, you've removed all doubt.

John L.

[MJL21193]

I'm just going to press on and ignore the last few posts as they have nothing in the way of useful information.

I keep saying: "keep an open mind". Also, it helps if you actually try to read and understand what it is I'm saying.
I'll try again.
Imagine, if you will, that you have a material that is fairly dense. It isn't infinitely dense, but it does require a great deal of force to make it more dense, even in a "local" way.
This material is at rest, at a specific temperature under a specific pressure.
Now, examine how sound travels. It is a form of energy that will produce vibration, right down to the molecular level. The energy from our sound wave will make molecules vibrate in our material. Still with me?
The molecules need room to move. The problem is that the energy (or force) from the sound wave is not enough to push the molecules closer together in this material. It tries to push molecules closer together, as in compression, but it can not as there isn't enough force. What it does instead is displaces the molecules around it (like getting in a tub that is too full, water overflows - that is displacement). This takes a lot less force.

Now we have the "compression" part of the sound wave exciting the molecules in our material, making them move, vibrate rapidly. The increased activity, under the relatively unchanged condition (temp, pressure) translate to a region of high pressure in our material. This is "seen" as a cluster of rapidly vibrating molecules.

Along comes the "rarefaction" part of the sound wave. This tries to reduce density within our material, but it also lacks the force necessary to accomplish that. Instead, it pulls back on our excited molecules. The result of this is a region on low pressure within our material. This would appear as an area of relatively still molecules.

As the sound wave travels through the material, it loses energy in the form of heat. Given the small amount of energy the sound wave has in the first place, this will not be very much heat. BUT heat is heat and it will effect a temperature change. When energy is dissipated in any material, heat is produced.
What happens to any material when it gets warmer? I won't wait around for a sensible answer, but give it now myself: as the material gets warmer, it's molecular activity goes up (more vibration). This equates to a lower density per unit volume. Admittedly, this will be a very slight decrease in density, as the temperature increase would be slight as well.

I ask you - what is so ridiculous about what I am saying here? I dare anyone to read with understanding what I have written above and tell me what I'm saying isn't plausible.

[SY]

What you're saying isn't plausible.

Vibration at the molecular level occurs in the infrared.

This equates to a lower density per unit volume. Admittedly, this will be a very slight decrease in density, as the temperature increase would be slight as well.

Then by symmetry, there are corresponding places that have a slight increase in density. Or are you postulating that there's a discontinuity at the average pressure and that whatever forces hold the fluid together are not the commonly understood electrical ones?

[auplater]

You can press on all you want.. but you'll still be wrong.

Furthermore, as you seem to rile at the lighthearted mockery of your inaccurate and incorrect understanding, you brazenly mock all those trying to help you understand what actually occurs, rather than what looks like a misguided grade school interpretation of reality.

You seem to want to redefine standard science in terms that fit your model w/o a shred of reference to any substantive information.

If it looks like a troll, I guess.

Bye

John L.

[MJL21193]

Originally posted by SY
What you're saying isn't plausible.

Vibration at the molecular level occurs in the infrared.

Sound waves make molecules vibrate. I didn't think I'd need to prove that too.

Originally posted by SY

Then by symmetry, there are corresponding places that have a slight increase in density. Or are you postulating that there's a discontinuity at the average pressure and that whatever forces hold the fluid together are not the commonly understood electrical ones?

"Globally", not "locally". I am saying the the overall temperature of the material will increase.
Maybe I didn't word it clearly enough or you need to re-read my last post