Speaker Wire sans BS

[Geek]

Have we had this link posted before?

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Very informative

 

[theAnonymous1]

Pure heresy!!!!!

Put your flame suit on and prepare to be burned!!!!!

 

[Sonusthree]

Thanks Geek! Excellent reading.

 

[TheMG]

Good read.

I have been using lamp cord for speaker cable for a long time, and don't plan to stop using it any time soon. As far as I've tested I don't hear any difference between that and more expensive "speaker wire".

The stuff is cheap, easily available and works rather well. Obviously if you need thicker gauge wires you'll have to look somewhere else but if your need is 18-14 awg then it does the job.

 

[peufeu]

I use solid core electrical wire of 1.5 mm² section, PVC insulated, available in assorted colors at your average hardware store for about 0.30 €/m. This is the standard caliber for household lighting in europe (16 amps max).

Since it is wire and not cable, I twisted it with a power drill (just attach two wires onto something, put the other end in the drill bit, and drill). So it actually looks like some super exotic crap.

The reason for using this wire is that I had lots left over after wiring my house. I never noticed any deleterious effect on the sound versus the € 20/m audiophool cable I was using before.

 

[korneluk]

Roger Russell on Speaker Wire

(thread with same topic merged )

Good reading from the former director of acoustic research at McIntosh Labs.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


Enjoy,

-- josé k.

 

[Terry Keith]

Roger Russell Article

Good one, Jose!

Thanks for shedding some light on this dim corner of the sonic adventure!

The Restorer

 

[ArtG]

It's a good honest article that been around for awhile.

For myself, though, now that I've spent all the money and effort to convert from solid gold, nitrogen filled cables, to twisted up coat hangers, I'll stick with them! They produce amazing clarity--probably due to the inherent stiffness of the coat hangers which allows them to self-suspend above the carpet, without the "sound muddying" supports that ordinary flexible wires require!

 

[HollowState]

This is another interesting read that demystifes the high-end cable hype.

http://www.latinternational.com/index.php/home/cable hype & demystification.html

 

[audio-kraut]

demystifes the high-end cable hype.

and promptly launches into its own:

Simply stated, skin effect is a phenomenon where high frequencies travel along the outside diameter of the conductor causing a timing difference (phase shift) of the travel of high notes to low notes.

what utter crap.

 

[jcx]

if you do have the need for 100+ ft runs "star quad" construction has been measured as superior within established audibility limits:

http://www.hps4000.com/pages/spksamps/speaker_wire.pdf

of course this "star quad" can be bought at Home Depot

in really difficult EMI environments it is possible that star quad or other high symmetry geometries (but avoid too much added C lest the amplifier become unstable) to the speakers could reduce EMI coupling and possible IMD products folding down into audio frequencies

 

[Geek]

Re: Roger Russell on Speaker Wire

(thread with same topic merged )

LOL!!!

When I entered the URL and "Roger Russell" in the forum "Search" before posting, nothing came up

Bug?

 

[jneutron]

and promptly launches into its own: (skin effect)

You missed a few..

""We tested the used trade-ins for this condition. These are detected using an industry test named a Spark Test. The test locates these faults in the insulation of a wire by application of a high voltage for a very short period of time while the wire is being drawn through an electrode field. The test will, of course, detect faults in the metal conductor too.""

Faults in the metal??? Nope

It is also impossible to determine if there was degradation of the insulation, as a spark test was not performed on the virgin product.. So the statistics of that test are not valid.

Magnetic interaction is a phenomenon that produces distortions as a result of the crossing and intersecting of individual conductors in a cable.

What is he talking about

Cheers, John

 

[TheMG]

Simply stated, skin effect is a phenomenon where high frequencies travel along the outside diameter of the conductor causing a timing difference (phase shift) of the travel of high notes to low notes.

I simply has to laugh when I read that.

Phase shift occurs due to propagation delay which has absolutely nothing to do with skin effect. Not to mention that skin effect is hardly prevalent at audio frequencies.

 

[KBK]

You missed a few..




Faults in the metal??? Nope

It is also impossible to determine if there was degradation of the insulation, as a spark test was not performed on the virgin product.. So the statistics of that test are not valid.



What is he talking about

Cheers, John

I think he means the high delta of frequency shift or 'transient' shift in the load on any inner core characteristic (many audio speaker cables at the higher end are layered), creating a desire of a specific field impinging on the outer conductor layering. The interaction between the two causing it's own alterations from a perfect transmission, besides that of the standard issues of skin effect.

An obvious flow out of transformer theory/design, and transmissive/pulsing coil systems, relatively speaking.

 

[planet10]

Re: Re: Roger Russell on Speaker Wire

LOL!!!

When I entered the URL and "Roger Russell" in the forum "Search" before posting, nothing came up

Bug?

You started your thread before the other gentleman... his search should have brought up your thread (but i wouldn't bet anything important on that -- the search in this version of the BBS software is lame, hopefully the new SW does a better job)

 

[fizzard]

Careful guys, you're going to pee off the fanbois.

Good article, I found it on google ages ago, but it made for a nice re-read.

 

[jneutron]

Phase shift occurs due to propagation delay which has absolutely nothing to do with skin effect.

Actually, that is not exactly correct.

Skin effect causes the internal (or self) inductance of a wire to lower as frequency goes up. At DC, a cylindrical wire has 15 nH per foot of internal inductance. As the frequency goes up, the toroidal induced faraday potential loops cause the charge carriers internal to see less emf, the outer (skin) sees more. As the current approaches a cylindrical sheet of current, the internal inductance tends towards zero. (look at the inner region of my avatar..that of a double braid coax magnetic field intensity plot.

Since the prop velocity is v =1/sqr(LC), and since LC is always greater than 1, any reduction of L causes the velocity to increase a tad.

Say I made a cable which had a capacitance of 300 pf per foot, and an inductance of 25 nH per foot at DC, 10 nH at full skinning..

At LF, the prop velocity is 37% of lightspeed.

At HF, the prop velocity is 58% of lightspeed.

Cheers, John

 

[jneutron]

I think he means the high delta of frequency shift or 'transient' shift in the load on any inner core characteristic (many audio speaker cables at the higher end are layered), creating a desire of a specific field impinging on the outer conductor layering. The interaction between the two causing it's own alterations from a perfect transmission, besides that of the standard issues of skin effect.

An obvious flow out of transformer theory/design, and transmissive/pulsing coil systems, relatively speaking.

I honestly have no idea what you just said.

Say again?

Cheers, John

 

[KBK]

I'll try again at a later date when I've ruminated a bit more on the possibilities correcting of my 'street terminology' vs your terminology.

in the meantime, I could go read up on it and will, but gimme the lowdown (quickly/simply iffin' you can) on DC inductance? I mean, I'm well aware of the idea of dynamic constriction in DC pulsed draw, ie varied current draw...but would that not cause a change in Voltage due to resistive considerations? And thus be the cause of changes in inductance (with respects to 'finding a place to hang the math on'). I mean, I'm well aware you have an 'inductive mass' consideration in a so-called 'static DC value'.

Edit:

The wire, and it's shape, are different, when it comes to density of energy vs the air. The point between the two, the surface of wire vs the air, is part of the more major points that define the 'shape' in air, of the given fields (due to shape of the conductive pathway, etc) . And also due to that 'barrier', or area of change, it defines the shape or current flow in the wire itself. The two being closely connected and all. This field impinges on the outer layer of the given audiophile design wire, and this outer layer of wire causes, or has, a different set of 'flow' characteristics. The two create a 'overall' flow consideration, but nothing says that they are entirely complimentary with one another across wide levels and differences of signal loading.

This also plays in transformer and multi layered coil design(s) for whatever the given purpose said design may be for.