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Old 7th March 2003, 11:49 PM   #231
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Default Re: SKIPPING STONES.

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
Not my text, but I agree:
Whose text is it? And what exactly are you agreeing with? That cones don't isolate? If so, that's never been the issue so what's the point?

se
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Old 7th March 2003, 11:55 PM   #232
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Default Re: Re: SKIPPING STONES.

Sheesh. You're just parroting more marketing literature.

<a href="http://www.symposiumusa.com/tech1.html">http://www.symposiumusa.com/tech1.html</a>

What about all those BOOKS you've been telling me to go read? Why don't you quote from some of those rather than marketing literature from companies in the business of selling cones?

*sigh*

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Old 8th March 2003, 12:00 AM   #233
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Default Rolling Stones

Hi,

Symposyum USA.

Quote:
With regard to low frequency isolation from a cone (below about 50 Hz), there is none, since the connection of the cone to support surface is rigid. When the support shakes, so will the cone, and so will the component. However, something else is at work: if the supporting surface is softer than the cone (it usually is), then the point will only more or less be sitting exactly on the surface. Looking at it microscopically, the surface, since it is not really very hard, exhibits a sort of "trampoline" effect because all of the weight of the component is concentrated at 3 (or 4) tiny points, stressing these parts of the surface, and usually distorting it. It's like the difference between balancing a stone and a pool cue in the palm of your hand; with the stone, your hand stays flat; with the pool cue tip, there's some stretching, and the skin more easily "gives" way to abrupt changes in the pool cue's position. In similar fashion, the surface of our component's support is going to "give" a bit under the increased inertial mass of the vastly increased weight-per-square-inch of a cone point, unless that surface is very, very hard and rigid. As vertical waves move our less-than-perfectly-rigid support surface, they will tend to "flex" the surface around the intersection of cone point and surface- in other words, there is some decoupling- and a degree of low frequency isolation. But the amount of isolation of wave motion is extremely limited (due to the very small excursions possible), unpredictable, and certainly not a constant value. It's very dependent upon the support surface material, its hardness, and many other factors - cone points impinging upon granite or steel will behave differently than when on wood or plastics. But in general, it's safe to say that isolation with cones exists in a very limited form, if at all- and quite by accident.
Oink,Oink....

/20 years of Godlmund and still fighting.
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Old 8th March 2003, 12:11 AM   #234
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Default NAH...

Hi,

Quote:
Whose text is it? And what exactly are you agreeing with? That cones don't isolate? If so, that's never been the issue so what's the point?
Cones do not isolate, they drain and then some...

I"d rather return the thread to the owner here...

Cheers folk,
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Old 8th March 2003, 12:16 AM   #235
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Default SIGH...

Hi,

Quote:
What about all those BOOKS you've been telling me to go read? Why don't you quote from some of those rather than marketing literature from companies in the business of selling cones?
When references are given, you ignore them anyway.

Small people,
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Old 8th March 2003, 01:33 AM   #236
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Default Re: NAH...

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
Cones do not isolate, they drain and then some...
Again, they couple. Period. Any energy which may be "drained" is entirely up to what goes on past the coupling point.

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Old 8th March 2003, 01:39 AM   #237
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Default Re: SIGH...

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
When references are given, you ignore them anyway.
I don't ignore them. I'm just not going to go and buy a bunch of books just on your say so which may not contain anything which supoprts your claim.

Had you quoted at least SOMETHING from one of those books, then I could have at least determined whether it was worth spending money on.

It's apparent that you don't even own any of these books yourself. If you did, you wouldn't be forced to parrot marketing literature from a cone manufacturer.

It's also apparent that all you seem to "know" about the subject is what you've read in marketing literature rather than through any understanding of physics.

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Old 8th March 2003, 01:55 AM   #238
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My mistake. Symposium doesn't manufacture cones.

Ironically, what they make to perform the function of a cone claimed by Frank are rectangular blocks. Called (surprise surprise) "couplers."

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Old 8th March 2003, 02:23 AM   #239
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Default Re: Re: SIGH...

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eddy


Had you quoted at least SOMETHING from one of those books, then I could have at least determined whether it was worth spending money on.

there exist places called libraries (or lybaries as G.W. would call them). They are places where one can look for and read books without buying. You can sneak into university libraries even if you are not a student (except Harvard which is a real pain in the *** about it) and pretty much read whatever you wish.
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Old 8th March 2003, 02:43 AM   #240
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Well, I've been reading through the Symposium web site and man, these folks don't even have a clue about their own products. That this site should be used as any sort of reference is laughable.

Here's perhaps the most egregious example, concerning their most popular product, their Rollerblock "isolation" devices:

<i>As the Rollerblock body moves, it pushes the ball and the component up the sides of the cup, dissipating the energy as work.</i>

Pushes the ball and the component up the sides of the cup dissipates energy?

Uh, no. It's actually STORING energy. What goes up (the sides of the cup) must come down (the sides of the cup). And since the ball and the cup are made from very hard materials, and due to the spherical shape of the ball, there's next to no energy dissipated (i.e. losses). Nearly all of it is stored and simply returned to the system.

While the Rollerblock is claimed to isolate the component from horizontal movement of the shelf, what they're actually doing is converting horizontal motion to vertical motion, transferring that motion to the component. And the Rolloerblock is designed to COUPLE vertical motion which makes it even more effective at converting horizontal motion to vertical motion.

Brilliant.

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