It´s all very well to worry that your tweeter or your amp is down 1db at 20 khz but can you really hear that far?
Recently I had a full battery of audio tests at the ENT (ear,nose,throat) doctor and he said I had excellent hearing.
However his as well most doctors tests are between 250hz and 8 or 10khz.
I knew from a special cd I have that my hearing at very high frquencies i.e over 14khz was rolling off quickly compared to the mean ideal.
So I set up an audiogram test at home with the special cd (20hz to 20 khz) and also used my 18 year old son to compare.
My son had excellent hearing especially at high frequencies where at 20khz he was almost 30db (more sensitive) above the mean level!
In my case and with the same 0db calibration my hearing matched his up to 12khz which is very good I think for my age (48).
However after 12 khz I have a sharp roll off and I am 30 db down at 16khz (compared to the ideal mean curve)which is absolutely the last frequency I can hear irrespective of level.
If I were a hi-fi component I would be deemed a disaster!
However in a log graph having almost 91/2 octaves of excellent and flat hearing it does not look too bad.
Depends how you look at it I guess.
How do you fare?
Recently I had a full battery of audio tests at the ENT (ear,nose,throat) doctor and he said I had excellent hearing.
However his as well most doctors tests are between 250hz and 8 or 10khz.
I knew from a special cd I have that my hearing at very high frquencies i.e over 14khz was rolling off quickly compared to the mean ideal.
So I set up an audiogram test at home with the special cd (20hz to 20 khz) and also used my 18 year old son to compare.
My son had excellent hearing especially at high frequencies where at 20khz he was almost 30db (more sensitive) above the mean level!
In my case and with the same 0db calibration my hearing matched his up to 12khz which is very good I think for my age (48).
However after 12 khz I have a sharp roll off and I am 30 db down at 16khz (compared to the ideal mean curve)which is absolutely the last frequency I can hear irrespective of level.
If I were a hi-fi component I would be deemed a disaster!
However in a log graph having almost 91/2 octaves of excellent and flat hearing it does not look too bad.
Depends how you look at it I guess.
How do you fare?
I forgot to mention the following for those who want to try it themselves and have some test tones: According to the bell shaped curve human sensitivity at 20 khz is about 80 db down from 1khz.bigwill said:
So if you adjust the 1khz tone so it is barely audible then a person with good hearing should hear the 20 khz tone by turning the gain up by 80db.I think 18khz is around 60db down from memory.
However I would hesitate to use cheap speakers with a normal amp for this test because it may be likely that what one hears is distortion from overdriving the amp/tweeter trying to hear such a high frequency.
Reasonably good headphones are recommended - they are usually flat and can take a lot of volume.
I have this cd and I find it usefull
http://www.digital-recordings.com/audiocd/audio.html
its easier to test your hearing with headphones rather than with speakers
headphones are more flat in their fr response, easier to drive, lower power, easier load for amp....
how do I do on that cd hearing test? not bad, my hearing goes up to 14-15kHz, I am little over 40
on the other note, I can see that by getting older, I am focused on different part of fr response spectra, as teeneger, I used to crank the hight up all the way, I enjoyed them, in contrary my father always turned the hights down, just midrange and base was fine for him, that makes me wonder what those old fart reviewers can hear...
http://www.digital-recordings.com/audiocd/audio.html
its easier to test your hearing with headphones rather than with speakers
headphones are more flat in their fr response, easier to drive, lower power, easier load for amp....
how do I do on that cd hearing test? not bad, my hearing goes up to 14-15kHz, I am little over 40
on the other note, I can see that by getting older, I am focused on different part of fr response spectra, as teeneger, I used to crank the hight up all the way, I enjoyed them, in contrary my father always turned the hights down, just midrange and base was fine for him, that makes me wonder what those old fart reviewers can hear...
I tested my hearing a few years ago at age 35. I used calibration data for my Senheiser 580 headphones. It turned out pretty close to the standard curve, with some loss in the extreme highs from over 2000 hours of stage/gig experience. Nothing real bad, though. I had a higher perception of sub frequencies compared to standard norm.
Subjectively, my hearing drops off pretty much completely around 16 kHz, and I have no memory of ever hearing 20 kHz. Although, I've never tried to crank 130 dB of 20 kHz into my ears!
Subjectively, my hearing drops off pretty much completely around 16 kHz, and I have no memory of ever hearing 20 kHz. Although, I've never tried to crank 130 dB of 20 kHz into my ears!
, yes if I recall it's audible but very small .
When I was about 9, I remember I could clearly hear a wrist watch ticking placed on a table across the room in absolute silence. Sometimes with my parents in department stores I`d be bothered by the ultrasonic burglar alarms. In my late teens as I got to play with better audio gear and had test equipment I discovered I could hear just past 20 KHz.
Now in my 50`s I tested myself recently and cannot hear anything above 16 KHz, regardless of level. I have been exposed to angle grinders and machines all my life and in the early days did not take precautions like wearing hearing protectors. For the past 20 years or so I have been careful about hearing protection and I believe that my hearing could be a lot worse than it is. My ears are overly sensitive to loud impulse sounds and really short term exposure to loud music screws up my hearing for a long recovery period. I can still hear well enough to tune speakers in development and hear small amounts of distortion. I enjoy good sound and do not bother listening to anything less given a choice.
I do find that what some people consider normal bass is too much for me and it muddies up the HF part of the audio spectrum. I tend to listen now with system eq`d close to flat for the room.
Now in my 50`s I tested myself recently and cannot hear anything above 16 KHz, regardless of level. I have been exposed to angle grinders and machines all my life and in the early days did not take precautions like wearing hearing protectors. For the past 20 years or so I have been careful about hearing protection and I believe that my hearing could be a lot worse than it is. My ears are overly sensitive to loud impulse sounds and really short term exposure to loud music screws up my hearing for a long recovery period. I can still hear well enough to tune speakers in development and hear small amounts of distortion. I enjoy good sound and do not bother listening to anything less given a choice.
I do find that what some people consider normal bass is too much for me and it muddies up the HF part of the audio spectrum. I tend to listen now with system eq`d close to flat for the room.
I measured myself, my wife, and several friends a couple weeks ago. First, if you're going to evaluate HF hearing, make sure your source is flat at the frequencies of interest. Many headphones are good to 20K, as are my old Morel tweeters. The bad news is that if you've hit 50, don't expect much above 14kHz. My hearing shelves sharply at 14.5kHz, almost regardless of how much you increase the amplitude. Everyone else I tested was similar, with females doing a bit better. Nobody got beyond 15kHz, though my measurement microphone said the output was fine. I remember as a teenager and college student, I could hear 18-19kHz with no problem. I haven't exposed myself to too much loud music, power tools without protection, or shooting without same. It appears to be age related and almost universal. I do note a difference in HF limit depending on time of day- I do better in the morning. There- now I don't have to worry about anybody reading my posts. Unfortunately, if you're young enough to hear the maximum high end, you probably don't have the experience to design the best electronics. By the time you've seen enough to avoid the pitfalls, it won't really matter 
[We have a high powered ultrasonic cleaner at work- the SPL meter puts it well over 100dB a couple feet away. No problem hearing that thing at all!]
[We have a high powered ultrasonic cleaner at work- the SPL meter puts it well over 100dB a couple feet away. No problem hearing that thing at all!]
Can YOU hear 20khz
Hypertension can affect hearing, particularly if you have industrial type hearing damage. Very high blood pressure can even cause the ear to shut down. Magnesium supplements have been proven to assist with hearing loss .Unsalted cashews have plenty of magnesium (e.g.1/4 of a cup a day.) Apparently magnesium assists also in regulation of blood pressure. I know the above from personal experience. Try an advanced "Google" for all the words "magnesium,hearing,loss"
The U.S. Navy Seals who have been exposed to high level noise in the form of explosions, are reported to take 400mg of magnesium daily. Makes you wonder what is the point of SACD and DVD-A then ? Well, even if you can't hear the higher frequencies, you are often aware if they aren't there in the right balance.
Bone conduction is reported to be a mechanism where people
are aware of frequencies way above the normal hearing limits,
so those super tweeters that extend to 70khz for enhanced SACD listening may not be a complete waste of time after all.
SandyK.
Hypertension can affect hearing, particularly if you have industrial type hearing damage. Very high blood pressure can even cause the ear to shut down. Magnesium supplements have been proven to assist with hearing loss .Unsalted cashews have plenty of magnesium (e.g.1/4 of a cup a day.) Apparently magnesium assists also in regulation of blood pressure. I know the above from personal experience. Try an advanced "Google" for all the words "magnesium,hearing,loss"
The U.S. Navy Seals who have been exposed to high level noise in the form of explosions, are reported to take 400mg of magnesium daily. Makes you wonder what is the point of SACD and DVD-A then ? Well, even if you can't hear the higher frequencies, you are often aware if they aren't there in the right balance.
Bone conduction is reported to be a mechanism where people
are aware of frequencies way above the normal hearing limits,
so those super tweeters that extend to 70khz for enhanced SACD listening may not be a complete waste of time after all.
SandyK.
Can yYOU hear 20khz?
Yes "tweets at 20hz are wasted"
I didn't say that I necessarily agree with it, only reporting the claims.
Many people, although they can no longer hear 20khz, report a more natural treble when upgrading to higher quality tweeters that have a similar basic response up to 20khz, but extend to 40-50khz.
SandyK
Yes "tweets at 20hz are wasted"
I didn't say that I necessarily agree with it, only reporting the claims.
Many people, although they can no longer hear 20khz, report a more natural treble when upgrading to higher quality tweeters that have a similar basic response up to 20khz, but extend to 40-50khz.
SandyK
Once in the electronics lab, I believe we were studying relays, switching them very fastrly. Since they eventually stop to make noise, because it stops working right, we started to argue about the human hearing...
Our teacher picked up a speaker, plugged it in the oscillator and oscilloscope, and started to increase the frequency. Then suddenly he stopped, and said "ha, see, we must be somewhere around 16kHz, or 20kHz, because we can't hear anymore."
Then everyone started to look at each other. We were still listening! We told him, then he looked at the oscilloscope, and measured the wave: It was till somewhere like 9kHz!!!... You could see he was a bit schoked... :/
A whole octave lost... And I don't believe he did too much headbanging in his youth!...
It's been a long ti I don't measure it... Results soon!...
Our teacher picked up a speaker, plugged it in the oscillator and oscilloscope, and started to increase the frequency. Then suddenly he stopped, and said "ha, see, we must be somewhere around 16kHz, or 20kHz, because we can't hear anymore."
Then everyone started to look at each other. We were still listening! We told him, then he looked at the oscilloscope, and measured the wave: It was till somewhere like 9kHz!!!... You could see he was a bit schoked... :/
A whole octave lost... And I don't believe he did too much headbanging in his youth!...
It's been a long ti I don't measure it... Results soon!...
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.