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Old 19th April 2007, 03:38 AM   #31
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rdf: I guess you consider yourself an audiophile, therefore you take personal exception to the article. I read it thinking it was supposed to be funny, and indeed, I found it to be funny.
The writer, if he has any serious interest in audio at all, is probably guilty of the same "audiophoolery" he's making fun of. I believe everyone who frequents this forum is just as guilty, though some moreso than others. I've caught myself on several occasions wondering if I had used that 7" midbass instead of the one that cost half as much would I be transported to sonic bliss? How about the $56.00 capacitor instead of the $5.60 one? And how about my choice of speaker cable- 18 gauge lamp cord?
It's all a matter of degrees.
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Old 19th April 2007, 04:13 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
And how about my choice of speaker cable- 18 gauge lamp cord?
I use an orange cable from power extender, green and black wires in parallel, it is at least thicker than 18 gauge fom your lamp.

Anyway, the writer is totally ignorant of what he is writing about, or makes a fun of messing arguments and counter-arguments together.
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Old 19th April 2007, 04:26 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wavebourn


I use an orange cable from power extender, green and black wires in parallel, it is at least thicker than 18 gauge fom your lamp.

Anyway, the writer is totally ignorant of what he is writing about, or makes a fun of messing arguments and counter-arguments together.

An orange extension cord? Better than my lamp cord? We shall have to set up a blind evaluation to determine which is the superior sounding solution.
Totally ignorant is a little harsh, is it not? You have to have a sense of humor, and take things with a grain of salt, and not be so sensitive about things you read here. I consider forums such as this to be 99% entertainment, 1% educational, and that's because I'm feeling generous tonight.
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Old 19th April 2007, 04:41 AM   #34
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P.S. rdf,

I knew a fellow, a few years back, who did high priced installations around here, which is where I met the 8. One pair was over $10,000 - in the late 1990's - and I scored a pair costing $2,500 for nix when they were 'thrown out'. They were badly constructed and degraded the sound of my mid-fi system.

And, regarding the XLR's, I'll have to check mine. I guess I was expecting the same lack of common sense as with RCA's (ie. the goldplate is thicker on the outside).

The rest... well let's just say I couldn't find a smilie who was fishing

Any idea why this is in Solid State?
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Old 19th April 2007, 08:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by rdf
Twin line interconnect? Niche Brit-only as far I know, yet Emmerson leaves the reader with the impression it's normal.

MOVs. Plain ridiculous, and near incomprehensible.
What's a "twin line interconnect"? As a Brit and former broadcast engineer, I've never heard the term. Used a lot of silver-plated XLRs, though. Come to think of it, MUSA video jackfield connectors (they are niche-Brit) are always silver-plated.

For some reason, MOVs are routinely sold as aftermarket accessories in the UK. I've never really been convinced. After all, who's to guarantee that the mains spike arrives tidily on the peak of the mains waveform and not at 0V?

I found the Emmerson article quite amusing, but I didn't take it seriously, not when I know that the writer does this for a hobby:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electronic-C.../dp/0750637889

It's actually quite a useful book, by the way.

I'm afraid we have to face up to the fact that 99% of the world couldn't give a stuff about audio quality, 99% of the remaining 1% don't understand the physics/electronics of how to achieve it, and the remainder are broke. That's why people pay to download pop music with zero dynamic range, compressed using MP3, converted by a cheap and nasty DAC, amplified by an amplifier optimised for efficiency and nothing else, then reproduced through a pair of earphones costing £1.

Incidentally, a minor breakthrough recently occurred in my house when I temporarily replaced my small broadcast monitoring loudspeakers with a pair of really ugly and badly made MDF boxes (out of practice at woodwork, I'm afraid). Despite the immediate objections on seeing the horrible boxes, there was also a complaint when they were removed because "they sounded nice."
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Old 19th April 2007, 11:54 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by EC8010


What's a "twin line interconnect"?
Twin line interconnects=two un-shielded conductors side by side.
Quote:
[i]
I'm afraid we have to face up to the fact that 99% of the world couldn't give a stuff about audio quality, 99% of the remaining 1% don't understand the physics/electronics of how to achieve it, and the remainder are broke. That's why people pay to download pop music with zero dynamic range, compressed using MP3, converted by a cheap and nasty DAC, amplified by an amplifier optimised for efficiency and nothing else, then reproduced through a pair of earphones costing £1.

[/B]
Amen.
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Old 20th April 2007, 12:43 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
In a rescent issue of UHF Magazine (I subscribe) they do a "blind" evaluation of 6 different power cords (yes, the cord for plugging a componet into the AC mains). The panel of 3 had no difficulty at all hearing which of these was superior. Included in this test was the original cheap ones supplied with some componet. The "sound" from this cable was so offensive, they could not finish the listening session for this and had to move to the next. The lowest price for any of the high end cables was in the $400.00 US range, with one reaching into the $1500.00 US area.
The proof is in the listening. Why would they mis-represent the sonic value of a power cord? More important, why take the chance that your power cord is allowing your system to sound like garbage?
Don't be so cheap, the best components deserve the best power cord.

We just showed our gear for the first time at the Montreal audio show 2007 (FSI). I specifically went to pains to not use any high end audio power cords. We were judged by many to have the best or one of the very top (2 or 3) sound quality at the show.

What we DID do..is use two 20 amp (cont.) rated 80lb balanced AC units from Furman. Far better money spent that power cords. I won't argue that power cords do SOMETHING, but it is a far more intelligent point to go after the source in a, er, intelligent manner and move to balanced AC first. And then just use mundane power cords of appropriate guage. The quality of the sound and associated dynamics..and associated noise floor of the system was good enough that many folks told us that they expected to enter the room and see a man playing a guitar and singing (John Martyn:Solid Air)..which is a VERY high and powerful compliment from seasoned audiophiles.

As some of you know, to alleviate any possibility of surge current draw from the audio equipment rearing it's head as a crushed current transient (draw) from my balanced AC transformer, mine is a 450lb 50kva (100kva rated for 30 seconds) balancing transformer. That should stop any current limitations from rearing their ugly little heads.

I also own interconnects which are in the $2500++ range and 15k++ speaker cables. I can't tell you exactly what they are yet, but maybe in the near future, I hope. Suffice it to say, even the most die hard objectivist scientist/phd among you will agree...that I'm definitely on to something (not simply 'on something').
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Old 20th April 2007, 03:12 AM   #38
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Ok. Interconnects carry the <2 volt signal from the component to the preamp or poweramp. At any department store you can buy cables that will do this flawlessly. They will be less than $10.00, they will be properly shielded; and because it is currently trendy, they will have gold plated RCA's on each end. There will be NO difference in the resulting sound quality when these are used. To claim otherwise is ridiculous. Shielding is all that matters.
Speaker cables are another story. They don't need shielding, they just need to have low impedance. To achieve low impedance, the cable has to be thick enough to carry the current to the speaker without losses. For most HiFi setups, 18 gauge wire is enough. Heck, if you are feeling generous and really want to be absolutely sure that you don't lose even a microvolt of power on the 5 foot trip from the amp to the speaker, use 16 gauge. Anyone who thinks that $15000.00 is a good investment in speaker cable, better be buying enough to wire all of Canada for sound.
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Old 20th April 2007, 04:08 AM   #39
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MJL, I think you need to look more carefully at the high end to understand why your assertions are oversimplification.

Audiophile-approved electronics often have high source impedances, have marginal stability, and are sometimes seem almost deliberately designed to have a frequency response that varies grossly with load. As an amp breaks in and out of ultrasonic oscillation with one cable and not another, the satisfied audiophile basks in the knowledge that his amp is very revealing of cable differences. And, of course, the unconditionally stable p.o.s. that covers up those differences is scorned as "mid-fi." Likewise the equalization effects from moderate levels of cable capacitance because of high source impedances and odd practices regarding feedback.

But the differences are real, the audiophile does sometimes hear them as he changes wires, but misattributes what he hears as some intrinsic quality of the wire.

Do not assume that people are using competently-designed electronics.
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Old 20th April 2007, 04:23 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
As an amp breaks in and out of ultrasonic oscillation with one cable and not another, the satisfied audiophile basks in the knowledge that his amp is very revealing of cable differences.
Do not assume that people are using competently-designed electronics.

Elloquently put.
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