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Old 18th April 2007, 04:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by mltaunt
I once did a stint behind the counter at a camera store. The most important sales advice I got from my boss was "Son, collecting camera equipment is a perfectly acceptable hobby, just don't confuse it with photography!"
I sold a lot of supplies and equipment to both types of hobbyists and became convinced that both groups got what they wanted for their time and money spent.

Exactly! Why do I only have 2 ears and 22 sets of speakers?

rdf: the article was funny, I laughed pretty hard at most of it (especially unobtainium).
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Old 18th April 2007, 05:16 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by rdf


I completely agree. It was done however using anecdotes, factual inaccuracies, and cherry picking extremes to represent common practice (how many $3800 interconnect owners do you know?), and in general purported to represent a point of view 'rooted a little more in reality' in an embarrassingly unscientific manner. It was hypocritical. On that point, little I saw in his bio gives him the right to weigh in on these matters so authoritatively, so why is it being accepted at face value? On agreement with its sentiments? Science is a method guys, not a popularity contest.

Who here, for example, really believes 'audiophools' use RCA instead of XLR for subjective reasons or plating? RCA connector use is based in historical precedent and the irony is it's typically very high end gear which includes a balanced option, usually mocked as overkill and unnecessary 'audiophoolery' in the home. Damned, do or don't if you're on the wrong side of the argument apparently. And what would Mr. Emmerson think of the very common silver - yes, SILVER! - plated XLRs littering studios around the world? He'ld no doubt drop dead at discovering the number of professional studios full of 'audiophool' cable, amplifiers, and speakers.
Number of $3800+ interconnect owners - 8

With the exception of his XLR thingy, I saw no 'factual inaccuracies', or 'cherry picking extremes'. And there may be silver plated XLRs littering studios where you come from, but not in this neck of the woods.

Our hobby is the only one where false advertising is the norm. When was the last time an 8 ohm speaker was, in fact, an 8 ohm speaker. Or that a 20w/ch into 8ohm amplifer (20-20kHz) actually could produce 20w from 20-20kHz? Or even worse, combining the 2 together finding that the 2 exacerbate each others failings. When was the last time a 90dB/w/m speaker was anything more than 87dB/w/m?

He is correct, this hobby is littered with people who will willing pay for 'snake oil' and who are phooled by pseudo-scientific bull(stuff). But, luckily, most of the people on this site are actually a bit more credible than the people who have to go into a hi-fi shop (salon, boutique, take you choice of words). Case in point - ygacoustics speaker, being talked about in this thread.

I too laughed at the article, like I laugh at most things that are sad, but true...

The opinions stated here are not necessarily those of the management.
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Old 18th April 2007, 05:21 AM   #23
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Default The ones were "fished" by that unobitanium conversations..the ones paid for gadgets


for sure will not agree with our criticisms...this thread will show them to us..hehe

Cd demagnetizer made me fall down from my chair...lol.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 18th April 2007, 04:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cloth Ears




I too laughed at the article, like I laugh at most things that are sad, but true...
What?

The article is a mess of criticism of audiofoolery and conter-audiofoolery, like the author did not know what he writes about, just collected all available articles and mixed them in a blender for taste.
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Old 18th April 2007, 04:42 PM   #25
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What he was doing was throwing down a gauntlet that he knows no one will pick up.
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Old 18th April 2007, 05:58 PM   #26
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In a rescent issue of UHF Magazine (I subscribe) they do a "blind" evaluation of 6 different power cords (yes, the cord for plugging a componet into the AC mains). The panel of 3 had no difficulty at all hearing which of these was superior. Included in this test was the original cheap ones supplied with some componet. The "sound" from this cable was so offensive, they could not finish the listening session for this and had to move to the next. The lowest price for any of the high end cables was in the $400.00 US range, with one reaching into the $1500.00 US area.
The proof is in the listening. Why would they mis-represent the sonic value of a power cord? More important, why take the chance that your power cord is allowing your system to sound like garbage?
Don't be so cheap, the best components deserve the best power cord.
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Old 19th April 2007, 02:05 AM   #27
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Old 19th April 2007, 02:20 AM   #28
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One day a peculiar branch of quantum physics(or psychiatry) will discover that knowing the price of a piece of equipment will make it appear better.
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Old 19th April 2007, 02:23 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
In a rescent issue of UHF Magazine (I subscribe) they do a "blind" evaluation of 6 different power cords (yes, the cord for plugging a componet into the AC mains). The panel of 3 had no difficulty at all hearing which of these was superior. Included in this test was the original cheap ones supplied with some componet. The "sound" from this cable was so offensive, they could not finish the listening session for this and had to move to the next. The lowest price for any of the high end cables was in the $400.00 US range, with one reaching into the $1500.00 US area.
The proof is in the listening. Why would they mis-represent the sonic value of a power cord? More important, why take the chance that your power cord is allowing your system to sound like garbage?
Don't be so cheap, the best components deserve the best power cord.
well they SAY they did that test, who knows what really happened.
check to see if any of those power cords are advertised in their magazine or sister publications.
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Old 19th April 2007, 02:27 AM   #30
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One last kick at the can I suppose.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cloth Ears
Number of $3800+ interconnect owners - 8
Are you claiming it's the norm then? Very extraordinary claim in my neck of the woods. It misses the point entirely otherwise, which was this isn't at all typical of those who believe interconnects make a difference. It's another, this time local, example of using extremes to stereotype the vast majority of 'audiophools' who've never seen a $3800 interconnect.


Quote:
Originally posted by Cloth Ears
And there may be silver plated XLRs littering studios where you come from, but not in this neck of the woods.
http://www.neutrik.com/content/produ...=CatMSDE_audio
http://www.neutrik.com/content/produ...=CatMSDE_audio

Look again, pulled almost at random from the site of arguably the world's most popular manufacturer of XLR. I've tossed boxes of silver-plated Cannon and Switchcraft rewiring radio plants.


Quote:
Our hobby is the only one where false advertising is the norm. When was the last time an 8 ohm speaker was, in fact, an 8 ohm speaker.


Be serious. Again this is historical nomenclature well pre-dating 'audiophoolery', shorthand approximations for ease of selection and to simplify things for inexperienced shoppers.


Quote:
Or that a 20w/ch into 8ohm amplifer (20-20kHz) actually could produce 20w from 20-20kHz?
In one form or another in North America since about the mid-Seventies:

http://www.ce.org/Standards/browseByCommittee_2624.asp

Not sure what the point of all this is though. When was the last time you read a motorcycle test in which wet weight and rear wheel horsepower matched manufacturer's spec? If you don't read them, it's not very often. Unless your objection was specifically limited to 'hobbies', you must not be seeing the same advertising world I do. Audio isn't unique.

But back to the original topic:

- 'audiophools' are analogue only? Hard pressed to make the case from the pages of Absolute Sound, Stereophile or DiyAudio.
- 'audiophools' listen to reference recordings only? I have 2000+ releases to toss. And contact those reviewers who attend concerts and play instruments to stop, immediately.
- The established techniques developed and proven over the years by audio professionals blah blahblah. Which audio professionals? Emmerson's television peers? I've been in broadcasting a quarter century now and, our little secret, audio quality hasn't been a driving industry force since Guy Lombardo and his band played live to air. To re-iterate an earlier and ignored point, the production magazines I get at work often feature studios full of 'audiophool' gear.
- Twin line interconnect? Niche Brit-only as far I know, yet Emmerson leaves the reader with the impression it's normal. The last audiophool cable I bought out of pure curiosity was triple shielded.
- MOVs. Plain ridiculous, and near incomprehensible. Is it his claim manufacturers aren't meeting their respective national safety standards? Or that there's a thriving market for high end transient suppressors? It makes me question whether he understands the difference between an MOV and a power conditioner.
- Audiophool journals. Now quite the extraordinary claim, that any magazine which discusses the sound of a DUT does so because it's on the payroll. No proof of course. 'We just know'.
- Mercury cables. Uh huh, some anecdote about someone on the Internet.
- Burning houses. Just another pathetic unsubstantiated anecdote. The 'may be legend' disclaimer is intended to leave the 'or not' impression and is again completely at odds with what I presume to be his stance: scientific.
- Interconnects vs. connecting lead. Please. This is an audiophool affectation? Or does he have an issue with evolving languages? He does come across as quite the reactionary in hindsight.

Again, Emmerson, not content at merely picking them, distorts the ridiculous, marginal and even the fictional in his efforts to whitewash a caricature. Pure punditry targeting a straw man. Anti-science. Which is fine, as you say the audio world is full of such things, unless you claim to represent the opposing viewpoint. Then it gets complicated.

Wavebourne nailed it.
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