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Old 23rd April 2007, 06:39 AM   #101
mach1 is offline mach1  Australia
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Give it a rest, will ya? 'Nuff of those "believer" statements.
Please keep it civil. Sorry if I challenged your belief system.

pm
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Old 23rd April 2007, 07:00 AM   #102
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Originally posted by mach1


Please keep it civil. Sorry if I challenged your belief system.

pm

Is that all there is to it, Is it just a matter of 'belief'? Is nobody anymore interested in finding out how much their belief matches the real world out there?

If NASA's engineers use certain procedures and mathematical frameworks to work out when to ignite the shuttle engine to land it safely, is that just a matter of 'belief'?

If two people come to different conclusions as to whether two amps sound different or not, is that just a matter of 'belief'?

I say NO! Some things match reality to a large extend, some don't. If you subcribe to a 'belief', you implicitly say that you don't give a hoot anyway.

Jan Didden
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Old 23rd April 2007, 08:06 AM   #103
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Is that all there is to it, Is it just a matter of 'belief'? Is nobody anymore interested in finding out how much their belief matches the real world out there?

About cables - you are right, I do not give a hoot anymore.

I was discussed to the extreme in other threads, and as topic as such does not belong here. Therefore - give it a rest.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 11:42 AM   #104
SY is offline SY  United States
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Jan, the other half of that is the willingness to accept what your experiments tell you.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 01:17 PM   #105
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Jan, the other half of that is the willingness to accept what your experiments tell you.

Yes, agreed. Experiments. If they are done the Scientific Way. Meaning that you double check, double blind, try to find the weak spots in your own reasoning and clear them up. Etc.

An 'experiment' is not buying an expensive cap, plugging it in, turning on the system and shouting, hey that sounds great!

Jan
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Old 23rd April 2007, 02:50 PM   #106
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Originally posted by janneman
Experiments. If they are done the Scientific Way. Meaning that you double check, double blind, try to find the weak spots in your own reasoning and clear them up. Etc.
Examples?
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Old 23rd April 2007, 03:11 PM   #107
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I'm far away from my field on this comment, but would also suggest learning to experiment with your mind. I don't mean drugs, but learning to recognize your biases and even change them to some extent- play devil's advocate. Suppress what you think you know. Take up a contrary position. Believe it. I'm still messing with the different conductors because if there's a chance of some missed property, I want to find it. An additional note on that ongoing test- when I thought I heard a difference, it was with the headphones connected directly to the amp outputs. Signals were at very low levels and SN ratio was probably pretty lousy. I added an output pad (1 ohm and 25 ohms) and got the levels up to something more reasonable. No detectable difference at that point. The differences I thought I heard between interconnects went away as well. My guess is that the lower resistance silver improved the grounding or otherwise reduced or changed the character of the noise a bit, and I reacted by thinking the music improved. Confirming that sort of thing by measurement becomes problematic- I can easily measure SN ratio, but I've no idea how the brain reacts to it. Thoughts?

The comment on mics is interesting because it suggests listener fatigue or some similar thing. I have to believe there are real differences between mics. I only have a Shure dynamic vocal mic, and an import large diaphragm condenser mic, but they seem very different in response. My test is ongoing for just that reason. Maybe I'll hear something I missed if I'm more relaxed. FWIW, some of my favorite test tracks are Joan Baez Diamonds and Rust from the UK import CD, or a transfer of same I made from vinyl. The opening notes have a squeak that should be just right, not to mention her voice, and there are some quiet and low frequency drums I find telling. Also, Pachelbel from an Archive CD (Reinhard Goebel) is more complex and tells me a bit. FWIW.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 03:49 PM   #108
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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As for silver-plated XLR connectors, silver is the budget alternative. Gold-plated XLRs cost more. It's only in "high-end" audio an oxidation prune material is considered the better material. And people wonder why I consider "high-end" audio a racket!
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Old 23rd April 2007, 04:05 PM   #109
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Ever seen 30 year old silver plated RF connectors? Yecch! OTOH, I've read that gold gives you no real connection improvement unless both parts are gold plated/flashed. No idea if RCA connectors that are externally plated all have gold plated inner contacts, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them cheap out. Tin plating should be fine for my tin ear
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Old 23rd April 2007, 04:29 PM   #110
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Oddly enough, silver oxide is a relatively good conductor (the only metal oxide that is) which is why you see it so widely used in microwave connectors and in precision rotary switches amongst others.

Silver has lower resistance per unit area than gold regardless of what it is in contact with.

Silver oxide does look pretty nasty. I have cleaned up surplus connectors and switches by dipping in one of several commercially available silver cleaners like tarnex with surprisingly ok results. (Just make sure to read the label and check that it won't attack or react violently with other materials present in the item to be dipped.)
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