You can install the earlier AP operating systems on the host computer and gradually update them to each new version. It's not a lot of fun. Walt sent me a couple of the macros he used for his 1995 regulator articles and I was able to move my way through them. In the end, however, it was easier to write the macros myself.
The sys one osc and analog analyzer is pretty good.... if you have the dual domain model, the DSP/FFT will indicate higher levels of harmonics and THD than the same test without the DSP... check via self test and read the datanumbers and compare. The FFT uses a 16 bit system so is more limited for higher than -95dB harmonics. just stay with analog analyzer portion.
I have the paper book manuals (when available was >$200) if you want them. My Sys One is now in use in Asia. Also, original software disk if needed.... i had the last/latest version before they stopped supporting the Sys One. Of course, it might also all avail for download copy from A-P site.
Their app notes are very helpful too. Shows the macro they wrote for some tests that wasnt included in the original software or gave third party/customers programs and they passed it on to A-P.
Thx-RNMarsh
I have the paper book manuals (when available was >$200) if you want them. My Sys One is now in use in Asia. Also, original software disk if needed.... i had the last/latest version before they stopped supporting the Sys One. Of course, it might also all avail for download copy from A-P site.
Their app notes are very helpful too. Shows the macro they wrote for some tests that wasnt included in the original software or gave third party/customers programs and they passed it on to A-P.
Thx-RNMarsh
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A properly dither 16 bit system has no -95 dB limit to harmonic resultion; in fact it has non at all. Also as noted earlier an several times in another thread, with correct configuration the DSP analyzer of the System One is limited by the distortion performance of the analog analyzer, not the ADC.
Samuel
Here's a macro example:
' Analog Noise Grapher
' This macro calculates noise voltage per root Hertz value at each frequency ' step utilizing the
' Analog Analyzer's Bandpass Function. The voltage is
' divided by amplifier Gain, filter factor and the square root of frequency
' to yield noise in nanoVolts per root Hertz.
' The data should be saved in an AP Data File for future reference.
'
' March 2012
Dim Counter As Integer
Dim FLow As Double
Dim FHigh As Double
Dim Steps As Double
Dim Gain As Integer
Dim Name As String
Sub Main
Debug.Clear
FLow=10
FHigh=100000
Steps=39
Counter=10
Name="LM317_POZ_Noise"
AP.Application.PanelOpen(apbPanelAnlrLarge)
AP.Application.PanelOpen(apbPanelSweepSmall)
AP.Anlr.ChAInput=0 'XLR
AP.Anlr.FuncMode=1 'Bandpass
AP.Anlr.RdgRate=8 'Auto Precise Reading Rate
AP.Anlr.FuncBPBRTuning=1 'Sweep track
AP.Anlr.FuncDetector=0 'RMS Detector
AP.Anlr.ChALevelSettling(1,1e-8,"V",20,0.05,0)
AP.Graph.Label(apbAxisLeft) = "Noise V/RtHz"
AP.Graph.CommentShow = False
AP.Graph.TimeDateShow=True
AP.Sweep.Data1.Id=5907 'Analog Bandpass Function
AP.Sweep.Source1.Stop("Hz") = FHigh
AP.Sweep.Source1.Start("Hz") = FLow
AP.Sweep.Source1.Steps = Steps
AP.Sweep.Data1.Bottom("V")=1e-10
AP.Sweep.Data1.Top("V")=0.001
Wait 1
AP.Sweep.Start
SizeA=AP.Data.ColSize(0,1)
Freq=AP.Data.XferToArray(0,0,"Hz")
LevelA=AP.Data.XferToArray(0, 1, "V")
For Size=0 To (SizeA-1)
LevelA(Size)=LevelA(Size)/Sqr(Freq(Size))
LevelA(Size)=LevelA(Size)/48.12
Next
AP.Graph.Legend.Comment(1, 1) = Name
AP.Data.XferToArray(0,1,"V")=LevelA
AP.Sweep.Data1.LogLin = 0
End Sub
' Analog Noise Grapher
' This macro calculates noise voltage per root Hertz value at each frequency ' step utilizing the
' Analog Analyzer's Bandpass Function. The voltage is
' divided by amplifier Gain, filter factor and the square root of frequency
' to yield noise in nanoVolts per root Hertz.
' The data should be saved in an AP Data File for future reference.
'
' March 2012
Dim Counter As Integer
Dim FLow As Double
Dim FHigh As Double
Dim Steps As Double
Dim Gain As Integer
Dim Name As String
Sub Main
Debug.Clear
FLow=10
FHigh=100000
Steps=39
Counter=10
Name="LM317_POZ_Noise"
AP.Application.PanelOpen(apbPanelAnlrLarge)
AP.Application.PanelOpen(apbPanelSweepSmall)
AP.Anlr.ChAInput=0 'XLR
AP.Anlr.FuncMode=1 'Bandpass
AP.Anlr.RdgRate=8 'Auto Precise Reading Rate
AP.Anlr.FuncBPBRTuning=1 'Sweep track
AP.Anlr.FuncDetector=0 'RMS Detector
AP.Anlr.ChALevelSettling(1,1e-8,"V",20,0.05,0)
AP.Graph.Label(apbAxisLeft) = "Noise V/RtHz"
AP.Graph.CommentShow = False
AP.Graph.TimeDateShow=True
AP.Sweep.Data1.Id=5907 'Analog Bandpass Function
AP.Sweep.Source1.Stop("Hz") = FHigh
AP.Sweep.Source1.Start("Hz") = FLow
AP.Sweep.Source1.Steps = Steps
AP.Sweep.Data1.Bottom("V")=1e-10
AP.Sweep.Data1.Top("V")=0.001
Wait 1
AP.Sweep.Start
SizeA=AP.Data.ColSize(0,1)
Freq=AP.Data.XferToArray(0,0,"Hz")
LevelA=AP.Data.XferToArray(0, 1, "V")
For Size=0 To (SizeA-1)
LevelA(Size)=LevelA(Size)/Sqr(Freq(Size))
LevelA(Size)=LevelA(Size)/48.12
Next
AP.Graph.Legend.Comment(1, 1) = Name
AP.Data.XferToArray(0,1,"V")=LevelA
AP.Sweep.Data1.LogLin = 0
End Sub
Yes, I hear this a lot..... however, in just pushing buttons on a computer screen shows what I said. I want to make others aware that the settings/setup can give different results. Not that it has to be that way... it is the way it is made. The 'correct' configuration should be the default setting(s) from the manufacturer.
Can you direct us to the proceedure for the "correct" configuration so we can get same or better data using the FFT/DSP with the SYS One Dual Domain ??
Thx-RNMarsh
I have a Portable One.
Two questions. The backlight has gone out and they want 400usd or thereabouts for the replacement. I think thats because its attached to the display board. Have any of you ever opened this guy up and is it a simple thing to replace the light? Its got to be but wanted to ask before I open it up.
The other question is about printing directly from the Portable One. AP has told me twice that there are plenty of printers that it will print directly to but that they can no longer suggest a certain one to use because there are so many new printers out there. I wonder if anyone has a suggestion for a printer that they KNOW works and is just plug n play.
This is what mine looks like
http://www.avalontest.com/AudioPrecision_PORTABLE-ONE_Portable-One-Audio-Analyzer.html
Two questions. The backlight has gone out and they want 400usd or thereabouts for the replacement. I think thats because its attached to the display board. Have any of you ever opened this guy up and is it a simple thing to replace the light? Its got to be but wanted to ask before I open it up.
The other question is about printing directly from the Portable One. AP has told me twice that there are plenty of printers that it will print directly to but that they can no longer suggest a certain one to use because there are so many new printers out there. I wonder if anyone has a suggestion for a printer that they KNOW works and is just plug n play.
This is what mine looks like
http://www.avalontest.com/AudioPrecision_PORTABLE-ONE_Portable-One-Audio-Analyzer.html
I sent mine to AP for a fixup and went on vacation while they installed it -- came back quickly.
Can anyone describe the Compute > Linearize function?
Measuring a preamp or power amp and plotting output level (dBV) as a function of input level (mV) you get a sloping line. Use the Compute > Linearize function and you get a somewhat flat line that I think represents gain but there can be a one or two dB error. The graph below shows output vs input after the Linearize function (cyan) and in red I plotted numbers taken directly from the Sys 1's generator and analyzer. A small spreadsheet was used to do the math. It was suggested to me that the units for the output be set to dBg (dB in reference to the generator) which seems to plot more like what I would expect, and you get the gain in dB.
Measuring a preamp or power amp and plotting output level (dBV) as a function of input level (mV) you get a sloping line. Use the Compute > Linearize function and you get a somewhat flat line that I think represents gain but there can be a one or two dB error. The graph below shows output vs input after the Linearize function (cyan) and in red I plotted numbers taken directly from the Sys 1's generator and analyzer. A small spreadsheet was used to do the math. It was suggested to me that the units for the output be set to dBg (dB in reference to the generator) which seems to plot more like what I would expect, and you get the gain in dB.
Attachments
See page 474 of the User's Manual.
When using analog sweep, use the bandpass filter and set the detector to anything but 'auto'
Well the IMD option boards just arrived today. new software and hardware and learning curve will keep me entertained for awhile. Soon, I hope to be able to characterize the ADC soundcards and QA400 et al for thier accuracy and quirkiness with harmonics below -100db.
Ultra-low distortion signal source/generator and then measuring it has been a long road here for me. It looks like i have close to what I need now.... with the ShibaSoku and the new A-P2722. I will find their limits and push them.
30-40 years ago I was at the 339A limit for measuring amp distortion.... .0018% THD. Had to give up trying to measure it at that time and actually just went on to do other things. Now we can meaure better and I have the time back again to see what can be done on a second Go-Around.
Then, we can start to make fabulous CFAmps and distortion cancelling cicuits with assurance that the tests are accurately telling us what the DUT is doing.....
[Phew! Glad I'm doing this while i am still young and have the stamana and energy for it.]
Thx-RNMarsh
Ultra-low distortion signal source/generator and then measuring it has been a long road here for me. It looks like i have close to what I need now.... with the ShibaSoku and the new A-P2722. I will find their limits and push them.
30-40 years ago I was at the 339A limit for measuring amp distortion.... .0018% THD. Had to give up trying to measure it at that time and actually just went on to do other things. Now we can meaure better and I have the time back again to see what can be done on a second Go-Around.
Then, we can start to make fabulous CFAmps and distortion cancelling cicuits with assurance that the tests are accurately telling us what the DUT is doing.....
[Phew! Glad I'm doing this while i am still young and have the stamana and energy for it.]
Thx-RNMarsh
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You may need to run it in administrator mode. Also 32 bit vs. 64 bit? Run in compatibility mode for XP?
It seems there are three generations of software for three distinct product generations. The system one, the 22/27 series and the new digital variations. The new box is really a soundcard with autoranging inputs. Its good (-110 or better loopback harmonics) but not 27 series distortion. They consider it a bargain at $6K, $11K with all the software. However a tweaked emu 1616m could have the same performance and used with something like ARTA or HPworks get the same results. (I find the mixer for the EMU really difficult but that's me.)
It seems there are three generations of software for three distinct product generations. The system one, the 22/27 series and the new digital variations. The new box is really a soundcard with autoranging inputs. Its good (-110 or better loopback harmonics) but not 27 series distortion. They consider it a bargain at $6K, $11K with all the software. However a tweaked emu 1616m could have the same performance and used with something like ARTA or HPworks get the same results. (I find the mixer for the EMU really difficult but that's me.)
You are correct.... all those things PLUS it wont work on WIN 8 unless I go to thier site and find another piece of software to download (patch?). But even so the expensive Dolby option wont work yet with WIN8. [not that i need that option... but really..... for the price?]
A 6K sound card? Wow. -110dB? ... not so Wow. Not including software? Underwhelmed.
That brings me to an interesting observation today.... while using the old XT-Pro system for the 2722... I plugged the ShibaSoku generator into the 2722. No 2H or 3H seen ?!? Both ShibaSoku's are a bit high by current standards on the noise..... I complained about it with the 725 analyzer and wanted to clean it up some with new, low noise opa in the filters and analog outputs to the monitor port. The gen is similar but Ok at -130dB re 1v ref on the FFT from the A-P 2722. I'll be able to verify more closely and get a better handle on it once i get the 2722 running on the new i7 PC. I sure hope I dont end up with three systems and three very different results.
-Richard
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Variations in Harmonic measurement levels --
Getting no-where fast with the A-P 2722 software. No time for this.... calling A-P Tech support to hold my hand..... WIN 8 plus a new A-P... both software to learn at the same time (?).
But, I did some other tests today - regarding the levels of harmonics.
First is the ShibaSoku 725D. it shows the 2H from the ShibaSoku generator as -125db and the 3H as -138dB
The second is similar technology from Panasonic's model AV-7722A analyzer. It shows the 2H as -132dB and 3H as -135dB.
The affect of the notch is most likely cause for the difference... especially for the closest harmonic to the notch frequency (the 2H).
The ShibaSoku would be the more accurate one with less attentuation of the 2H by about 7dB.
Thx-RNMarsh
Getting no-where fast with the A-P 2722 software. No time for this.... calling A-P Tech support to hold my hand..... WIN 8 plus a new A-P... both software to learn at the same time (?).
But, I did some other tests today - regarding the levels of harmonics.
First is the ShibaSoku 725D. it shows the 2H from the ShibaSoku generator as -125db and the 3H as -138dB
The second is similar technology from Panasonic's model AV-7722A analyzer. It shows the 2H as -132dB and 3H as -135dB.
The affect of the notch is most likely cause for the difference... especially for the closest harmonic to the notch frequency (the 2H).
The ShibaSoku would be the more accurate one with less attentuation of the 2H by about 7dB.
Thx-RNMarsh
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richard-
Your making an assumption that the Shibasoku 725 isn't generating some second harmonic.
You may be able to verify the filter by introducing a second signal at levels around -100 dB to -120 dB near the second harmonic and see if they appear in the monitor output. You should be able to verify the noth filter response at H2. In the distortion analysis they are ignored until they phase modulate the harmonic and then you get weird results. (Beats) Its really hard to know who is generating which harmonic when both devices are around the same level. Since both the analyzer and the generator use a similar amplifier circuit they would have similar distortion signatures I suspect. The three stage notch in the Shibasoku means that the autotune will be less of an issue. I suspect it only works on the third stage.
Your making an assumption that the Shibasoku 725 isn't generating some second harmonic.
You may be able to verify the filter by introducing a second signal at levels around -100 dB to -120 dB near the second harmonic and see if they appear in the monitor output. You should be able to verify the noth filter response at H2. In the distortion analysis they are ignored until they phase modulate the harmonic and then you get weird results. (Beats) Its really hard to know who is generating which harmonic when both devices are around the same level. Since both the analyzer and the generator use a similar amplifier circuit they would have similar distortion signatures I suspect. The three stage notch in the Shibasoku means that the autotune will be less of an issue. I suspect it only works on the third stage.