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Old 13th February 2013, 09:55 PM   #21
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusion916 View Post
I have a (crappy) drill press right now, maybe I'll just upgrade to a nice dremel based one that will make it more tolerable.

1. What is the best dremel for pcb hole drilling? Is there a laser guided one?
2. What is the best type of wire drill bits for a dremel?
3. Best dremel holder drill press?
I just used a plain Dremel rotary tool. The higher the maximum speed it has, the better. Mine went to 30,000 RPM. I guess you could add a laser easily-enough. But you might need a lense or two, to make the spot smaller. I just kept the drill about 4 or 5 mm above the board.

The wire-gauge drill bits are not suitable for PCBs. The FR4 can't dissipate heat well and a steel bit gets very hot and goes dull within a couple hundred holes.

Just buy the solid carbide "re-pointed" used PCB drill bits, with a 1/8th-inch shank. You can get boxes of used ones, probably on ebay.com, cheaply-enough (or I did in the past, anyway). They work extremely well.

No idea what drill press would be best. Dremel makes one. I just cannibalized a crappy old tabletop one.
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Old 13th February 2013, 10:09 PM   #22
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Such as this?

50 Micro Carbide Drill Bits Miniature Drill Bits CNC PCB Set D11 | eBay
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Old 13th February 2013, 10:19 PM   #23
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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I really don't understand PCB fab hobbyists

just buy the dang things with pth, soldermask

for less than a nice resturant meal for a quickturn service

or even lunch money if you can wait

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class...ml#post3333191
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Old 13th February 2013, 10:23 PM   #24
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Fusion,
Do you really need the entire assortment of drills? I would get the size you need for through hole components unless you are going to do other things will all of those. The ones you show from Ebay all seem to be in holders, if they are do you need those, I have never seen a Dremel tool with those types of collet.
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Old 13th February 2013, 10:33 PM   #25
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jcx,
It seems to me with all the prototype services offering quick turnaround it is just as easy to have someone else make a few boards. The kits I have seen at Fry's for doing it yourself aren't that cheap and then you would have to replace the chemicals after a given time. Some things just don't seem like they are worth doing yourself unless it is just to do it and say that you did.
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Old 13th February 2013, 11:14 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcx View Post
I really don't understand PCB fab hobbyists

just buy the dang things with pth, soldermask

for less than a nice resturant meal for a quickturn service

or even lunch money if you can wait

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class...ml#post3333191
I wouldn't say "quick"

A lot of things in the AV world you can design, layout, fab and populate for testing in 1 day. If you send it out for a fab to do it, thats at least 7-8 days (including weekends). So thats 7-8x as long, in which in that time you can test, debug, improve (if unnecessary) and already have your next version fabbed yourself before your first version would even arrive if you sent it out for fab.
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Old 13th February 2013, 11:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
Fusion,
Do you really need the entire assortment of drills? I would get the size you need for through hole components unless you are going to do other things will all of those. The ones you show from Ebay all seem to be in holders, if they are do you need those, I have never seen a Dremel tool with those types of collet.
Why not get an assortment? It's only $50. And do I just need to get the drill bits with a shaft without the holders? Like this?

Carbide Micro Drill Set 0 3 0 8mm PCB Dremel Press Bit | eBay

BTW based of those pictures above it looks like the holders come off?
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Old 14th February 2013, 12:06 AM   #28
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Fusion,
They actually say for Dremel so you probably can't go wrong with them. As for turnaround on pcb production from some of these places I have seen many that are almost overnight but I would suppose that costs more. Have fun whatever you do.
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Old 14th February 2013, 02:16 AM   #29
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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All of the drills you showed have the same shank size and will all work. Those aren't "holders". They're like collars, so they won't go any farther into the tool's collet. And they are color coded for size, that way, and readably labeled, and it makes them easier to handle.

Mine were always a little less than half that price, I think. I'd check around. But that WAS between five and ten years ago.

You will want to get a LOT of the main size you need. They break very easily. If your finger touches them, they break. If you look at them too hard, they break. My record was probably over 2000 holes with one. But other times, and with different drill setups, I burned through them fairly quickly, sometimes. I THOUGHT that the most-used size was 0.032 but I could be totally wrong. Maybe it was 0.027 or something like that. Find out, before you buy (check a bunch of datasheets, if nothing else). Anyway, for larger holes, you can use regular high-speed steel drill bits, or titanium ones, or something, since you won't have nearly as many larger holes.

-----

I made my own PCBs for two reasons:

1. prototyping: I could go from PC screen to finished board in less than ONE HOUR. I gave up using those white plug-boards and just made PCBS for everything. It SAVED a lot of time debugging.

2. sales: If you have the time, there is no way to beat the price of making them yourself. It's not even close, usually. But if you have two-sided boards that get to be more than about six or eight inches long, and you use an older laser printer for toner transfer, you can start to have problems with the printer's accuracy. That's when I finally broke down and just had them made. I used 4pcb.com and they are wonderful. You should at LEAST send your Gerbers to their automated DFM checker. They email you a giant hi-res PDF of each layer, and other good stuff. (In the included quote, make sure you try changing the quantities. You can usually have 100 made for just a few more dollars than 5!)

Last edited by gootee; 14th February 2013 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 14th February 2013, 02:51 AM   #30
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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gootee: just wondering, i'm just setting up to be able to do boards here, I have a very nice professional A3 size xerox colour laser, my background is as a designer for pre-press, so no drama there. i'm a bit concerned about the chemicals, not so much for me, as I can always wear protective measures, but about their corrosive effect on electronics in the house. what did you do about exhaust? did you use a bubble method or brush/stir?

i'm not looking to replace using outside board houses, especially at the prices today and the fact 4 layers is pretty much arbitrary for todays mixed signal designs, but just for roughing out ideas quickly. i'm 99% SMD so the only holes that need drilling are vias; what did you use for registration for double side?

Last edited by qusp; 14th February 2013 at 02:56 AM.
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