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Old 24th September 2012, 07:26 PM   #41
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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marce, it is explained at length in that article why an SMPS is inherently unsafe and not worth the risk.

Other than that, the same argument that they fed us to ban solder with lead, is, in essence, the same against SMPS: some people make bad use of products with lead-based solder ... ban it! some people misuse linear power supplies ... ban them! I think you can work out the details yourself.
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Old 25th September 2012, 07:49 AM   #42
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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As he said, he's playing Devils Advocate. SMPS's are used in numerous life critical and high reliability situations. Cheep imports and cheep products will always be desined down to a price.
The reason linear PSU's are being banned is because they are not efficient and for every linear supply we replace with a SMPS we save 0.001 Polar bears, so its got to be a good thing. plus we also need to save power wasted by power supplies to have enough energy left to heat up the lead free solder to the 20-30 degrees it melts at above a good eitectic tin lead solder.
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Old 25th September 2012, 09:49 AM   #43
tsiros is offline tsiros  Greece
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You're being sarcastic, right?
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Old 25th September 2012, 10:49 AM   #44
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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The second paragraphis not realy sarcasm but satire.
SMPs are used extensivly in medical, millitary and aerospace projects, where high reliability is required, that is a fact, and on that note the failure rates is not as bad as made out, though other safety measures are involved that go above consumer goods. Linear supplies and incandescent lightbulbs are being banned because of their inefficiency and as such they waste power.Lead free solder requires 240-260 deg C reflow compared with 210-235 deg C for tine lead eutectic solder, thus we have to heat the reflow ovens and solder to at least 30 deg C higher for PB free soldering, so we burn extra energy.
I have been heavily involved with the change from leaded solders to lead free, mianly in the build up to PB free day in 2006, and have experience in both the change in PCB design requirements (minimal) and the changes in production departments to cater for lead free solders. As well as being involved in many tests with various combinations of Pb free solder formulations to achieve certain desired goals. I am still heavily involved with designs that have to use tin/lead solder and the problems that incurs when the majority of the components are now terminated with a Pb free compatible terminations (matt tin on passive components etc and Pb free solder balls on BGA's). This brings its own set of problems in creating reliable assemblies with good joints, BGA's have to be re-balled with eutectic tin lead solder balls (at approx 2p per pin) etc etc.
Lead was banned from electronics cos the lentil suckers got a bee in their bonnet about lead in the envoironment, it is almost impossible for lead in tin lead solder to contaninate the envoironment, but banning the lead in solder has increased the amouint of power required to produce electronic assemblies, thus helping global warming.
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Old 25th September 2012, 11:05 AM   #45
palmas is offline palmas  Portugal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marce View Post
As he said, he's playing Devils Advocate. SMPS's are used in numerous life critical and high reliability situations. Cheep imports and cheep products will always be desined down to a price.
The reason linear PSU's are being banned is because they are not efficient and for every linear supply we replace with a SMPS we save 0.001 Polar bears, so its got to be a good thing. plus we also need to save power wasted by power supplies to have enough energy left to heat up the lead free solder to the 20-30 degrees it melts at above a good eitectic tin lead solder.
Good thing is my amps using just for heaters double the max output power.
If I use 10% output in average the global efficiency will be about 3,1%. OUCH,
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Old 4th October 2012, 06:31 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by marce View Post
...
" ... incandescent lightbulbs are being banned because of their inefficiency and as such they waste power...
They are inefficient as light generators. They are quite efficient as heaters.

What happens when the desired output is both heat and light? They are 100% efficient.

In cold climates, switching to non-incandescent bulbs results in increased energy costs, as the lost heat must be replaced by natural gas, other fossil fuels, or increased electrical generation.

BC Hydro (Province of British Columbia, Canada) published a paper that calculated the increased demand and CO2 emissions that a 100% switch to CFL from incandescent would generate. It wasn't trivial, and illustrates the problem with "Global" approaches to problems.

Somewhat back on topic, does anyone know of a lead-free that can sub for tin-lead, taking into consideration reliability of the joint and whisker issues? Is there any that come close ... ie they are simply not as bad as the competition?
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Last edited by Johnny2Bad; 4th October 2012 at 06:35 PM.
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