rcavictim said:
Well, brain fart and all. I meant to say 1740A Hewlet Packard scope.
Yes those ceramic terminal strips in the old Tek series scopes and other gear would be great to use in DIY tube gear while you can still get silver bearing lead tin solder. Must think about that for my next tube project. Trouble is most of the gear I own that has `em inside I still use.
Well, the MIT flea was pretty lame--first one of the year and bad weather, I'll probably try going back a little later just to see whether that's typical. Lots of really cheap PC garbage and typical flea market junk, a little bit of interesting stuff around the edges.
I'm watching a couple of eBay options right now, particularly this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=320102090329&rd=1&rd=1
Shipping was quoted to me by the seller at about $30, so about $175 all told. The specs on the scope itself appear to be pretty good, and there is a 5-day return warranty on it, though after $60 in shipping costs that's not a get-out-free card.
I've also found someone near me who has a couple of Tek 465s he bought surplus from an employer a few years ago. He is offering to sell me one for $90, with a no-questions-asked money back if I don't like it and he'd take PayPal if I wanted to do it that way. Even adding in probes and all this would probably net out to $120-$130. I'm waiting to see what the exact model is (A, B, or M) and what sort of condition it looks like.
Given the choice (Newish 20MHz/2-ch "cheap" scope for $175 vs. 465 for ~$130), what would you guys go with?
If I met the fellow to look at the Tek, are there any simple tests I can run without a signal generator on hand to make sure the thing isn't hopeless? I trust that I could get my money back from him if so, but would prefer to avoid waste of time.
EDIT: Also really tempted by this thing, which is stupid since it is the same price effectively as the Instek above and much less capable, but a lot more scope than I have now (none) and so nice and small! (9"x3.5"x11") and I live in a city studio apt. which already has too much crap in it. Portable is really nice for me...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=280103180320&rd=1&rd=1
I'm watching a couple of eBay options right now, particularly this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=320102090329&rd=1&rd=1
Shipping was quoted to me by the seller at about $30, so about $175 all told. The specs on the scope itself appear to be pretty good, and there is a 5-day return warranty on it, though after $60 in shipping costs that's not a get-out-free card.
I've also found someone near me who has a couple of Tek 465s he bought surplus from an employer a few years ago. He is offering to sell me one for $90, with a no-questions-asked money back if I don't like it and he'd take PayPal if I wanted to do it that way. Even adding in probes and all this would probably net out to $120-$130. I'm waiting to see what the exact model is (A, B, or M) and what sort of condition it looks like.
Given the choice (Newish 20MHz/2-ch "cheap" scope for $175 vs. 465 for ~$130), what would you guys go with?
If I met the fellow to look at the Tek, are there any simple tests I can run without a signal generator on hand to make sure the thing isn't hopeless? I trust that I could get my money back from him if so, but would prefer to avoid waste of time.
EDIT: Also really tempted by this thing, which is stupid since it is the same price effectively as the Instek above and much less capable, but a lot more scope than I have now (none) and so nice and small! (9"x3.5"x11") and I live in a city studio apt. which already has too much crap in it. Portable is really nice for me...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=280103180320&rd=1&rd=1
Go for the 465, but check: Most importantly, look at any signal (the square wave from the built-in calibrator will be fine), make it about one large division high and use the shift control to move it up and down the screen. If the amplitude changes from the top to the bottom of the screen drop the 'scope like a hot potato. Changing amplitude indicates a blown output transistor in the "Y" deflection amplifier, and the hybrid containing that transistor is no longer available, so you're stuffed.
I too am for the 465's
Make sure it has a letter after it, the B would be the best
and even better with a DM too. They came with a multimeter
or a counter attached to the scope..
Also check to see that it does have 2 traces and that the
trace is strong. Touching the BNC connectors with get
a wave and easy to check that way...
Steve @ Apex Jr.
Make sure it has a letter after it, the B would be the best
and even better with a DM too. They came with a multimeter
or a counter attached to the scope..
Also check to see that it does have 2 traces and that the
trace is strong. Touching the BNC connectors with get
a wave and easy to check that way...
Steve @ Apex Jr.
The Tek 465 is a nice scope, but it does have one problem ... crt failure.
The lab that maintained the scopes where I once worked kept a stock pile of spare crt's for all the scopes. The 465 - 475 series went through more crt replacements than any of the other models. The older 454's seemed to NEVER throw a crt, maybe they didn't push them as hard brightness wise.
Mind you the scopes saw a LOT of use (and abuse) so take it with a grain of salt.
The lab that maintained the scopes where I once worked kept a stock pile of spare crt's for all the scopes. The 465 - 475 series went through more crt replacements than any of the other models. The older 454's seemed to NEVER throw a crt, maybe they didn't push them as hard brightness wise.
Mind you the scopes saw a LOT of use (and abuse) so take it with a grain of salt.
rcavictim said:
The old Tek scopes still have one thing going for them -- they are much, much quieter than the digital ones which go for a couple thousand bucks -- yes you may only get 25 MHz of bandwidth but it isn't going to send all sorts of digital artifacts all over the room.
Since you're near the boston area you might consider going to the "Flea at MIT" -- every month one of the ham radio clubs has a flea market and you might find a good used Heath, B&K etc. scope for a couple of Jeffersons.
"Flea at MIT" -- next one is June 17
FLEA at MIT
*******************************************************************************
2007 DATES -> -> April 15 May 20 June 17 July 15
August 19 September 16 and October 21, 2007
*******************************************************************************
**** Even More Buyers parking is available..
Thanks to Shire pharmaceutical we have use of the parking
lot across Albany St from the SWAPFEST. Enter at
700 Main St 02139
or 55 Albany St 02139
**** More buyers parking is now available. ***
Thanks to Analog Devices we have use of the parking lot next to their
MicroMechanical Fab, available for buyers, enter at
35 Osborn St 02139
for a map see http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps
Entrances to the other buyers parking lots are at:
10 Portland St 02139
68 Albany St 02139
151 Mass Ave 02139
480 Main St 02139
*** GREAT NEWS We again have full use of the garage and outdoor
lots for sellers !!!
*******************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************
Summary: Buy Sell SWAP Ham Radio Electronics Computers 9AM - 2PM
*** !!!! In our Traditional GARAGE and lot !!!! ****
so come rain or shine or super heat the Flea is on !!!
********* $1 buyers discount with hardcopy of this notice ********
COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS - HAM RADIO - COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS - HAM RADIO
FLEA all SUMMER at MIT
Sunday April 15th 2007
9AM-2PM
Come to the city for a great flea - plenty of free parking.
MIT's electronics and ham radio flea will take
place on the third Sunday of each month this summer,
April thru October.
There is tailgate space for over 600 sellers and
free, off-street parking for >2000 cars!
Buyers admission is $5 (you get $1 off if
you're lucky enough to have a copy of our ad)
and sellers spaces are $20 for the first and
$15 for each additional at the gate.
The flea will be held at the corner of Albany and
Main streets in Cambridge; right in the Kendall
Square area from 9AM to 2PM, with sellers set-up
time starting at 7AM.
SEASON PASS + Advance Discounts
A sellers discount season pass is available which
offers a 33% discount. See the registration form
for full seller info.
*** Attention Sellers ***
Prepaid vendors.. Season Pass or monthly,
will be admitted FIRST.
Separate lines will form prior to gate opening
for prepaid and nonprepaid vendors
!! RAIN or SHINE !! Have no fear of rain, a covered
well illuminated tailgate area is available for all
sellers (6'8" clearance).
Talk-in: 145.23- (PL 88.5) W1BOS/R and
W1XM/R-449.725/444.725 (PL 114.8/2A).
Sponsors: MIT Electronics Research Society
MIT UHF Repeater Association (W1XM)
MIT Radio Society (W1MX)
Harvard Wireless Club (W1AF)
For more info / advanced reservations 617 253 3776
********** $1 buyers discount with hard copy of this notice ************
*******************************************************************************
Steve Finberg W1GSL w1gsl@mit.edu
PO Box 82 MIT Br Cambridge MA 02139-7082 617 258 3754
*******************************************************************************
FLEA at MIT
*******************************************************************************
2007 DATES -> -> April 15 May 20 June 17 July 15
August 19 September 16 and October 21, 2007
*******************************************************************************
**** Even More Buyers parking is available..
Thanks to Shire pharmaceutical we have use of the parking
lot across Albany St from the SWAPFEST. Enter at
700 Main St 02139
or 55 Albany St 02139
**** More buyers parking is now available. ***
Thanks to Analog Devices we have use of the parking lot next to their
MicroMechanical Fab, available for buyers, enter at
35 Osborn St 02139
for a map see http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps
Entrances to the other buyers parking lots are at:
10 Portland St 02139
68 Albany St 02139
151 Mass Ave 02139
480 Main St 02139
*** GREAT NEWS We again have full use of the garage and outdoor
lots for sellers !!!
*******************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************
Summary: Buy Sell SWAP Ham Radio Electronics Computers 9AM - 2PM
*** !!!! In our Traditional GARAGE and lot !!!! ****
so come rain or shine or super heat the Flea is on !!!
********* $1 buyers discount with hardcopy of this notice ********
COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS - HAM RADIO - COMPUTERS - ELECTRONICS - HAM RADIO
FLEA all SUMMER at MIT
Sunday April 15th 2007
9AM-2PM
Come to the city for a great flea - plenty of free parking.
MIT's electronics and ham radio flea will take
place on the third Sunday of each month this summer,
April thru October.
There is tailgate space for over 600 sellers and
free, off-street parking for >2000 cars!
Buyers admission is $5 (you get $1 off if
you're lucky enough to have a copy of our ad)
and sellers spaces are $20 for the first and
$15 for each additional at the gate.
The flea will be held at the corner of Albany and
Main streets in Cambridge; right in the Kendall
Square area from 9AM to 2PM, with sellers set-up
time starting at 7AM.
SEASON PASS + Advance Discounts
A sellers discount season pass is available which
offers a 33% discount. See the registration form
for full seller info.
*** Attention Sellers ***
Prepaid vendors.. Season Pass or monthly,
will be admitted FIRST.
Separate lines will form prior to gate opening
for prepaid and nonprepaid vendors
!! RAIN or SHINE !! Have no fear of rain, a covered
well illuminated tailgate area is available for all
sellers (6'8" clearance).
Talk-in: 145.23- (PL 88.5) W1BOS/R and
W1XM/R-449.725/444.725 (PL 114.8/2A).
Sponsors: MIT Electronics Research Society
MIT UHF Repeater Association (W1XM)
MIT Radio Society (W1MX)
Harvard Wireless Club (W1AF)
For more info / advanced reservations 617 253 3776
********** $1 buyers discount with hard copy of this notice ************
*******************************************************************************
Steve Finberg W1GSL w1gsl@mit.edu
PO Box 82 MIT Br Cambridge MA 02139-7082 617 258 3754
*******************************************************************************
I went to the Flea last weekend with high hopes, but it was honestly a pretty sorry affair, unless you were looking for large volumes of PC garbage. Or perhaps all the good stuff got picked off by 10:30 when I got there--not a single scope in sight.
BTW, what do people think of this piece? Not exactly a beginner's device and I can't find much on the web about it, but given my tiny apartment I'd love something smaller than a full-size bench unit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120108800613&ssPageName=ADME:L:DBS:US:11
BTW, what do people think of this piece? Not exactly a beginner's device and I can't find much on the web about it, but given my tiny apartment I'd love something smaller than a full-size bench unit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120108800613&ssPageName=ADME:L:DBS:US:11
It might make an OK second scope for portable use, but bite the bullet and get a real scope for the bench.
edit: This is a somewhat smaller version of the scope I use.
http://cgi.ebay.com/KIKUSUI-COS5100...yZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
edit: This is a somewhat smaller version of the scope I use.
http://cgi.ebay.com/KIKUSUI-COS5100...yZ104247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Not with a sterilised barge pole.
Seriously, using a 'scope like that demands far more knowledge than you presently have. All digital 'scopes have their failings and can give odd results compared to an analogue 'scope if they're not set up perfectly for the task in hand. You need an analogue 'scope you can trust. Even I sometimes get caught out with my digital 'scope - and it has far fewer flaws than the one you have looked at.
Seriously, using a 'scope like that demands far more knowledge than you presently have. All digital 'scopes have their failings and can give odd results compared to an analogue 'scope if they're not set up perfectly for the task in hand. You need an analogue 'scope you can trust. Even I sometimes get caught out with my digital 'scope - and it has far fewer flaws than the one you have looked at.
jackinnj said:I bet you've never done this at 3:00 a.m. -- placed the digital scope probe on the schematic to find out what's wrong
He, he! Did it give a better result than putting it on the circuit? Faultfinding at 03:00 is guaranteed to result in daftness.
I'll share a moment of daftness. We had an intermittent fault on a VT machine and I'd narrowed it down to one board, so I had the board out on an extender and waved a hot air gun over it to force the fault. I could then provoke the fault at will, but prodding with a screwdriver didn't work, so I stayed with the hot air gun, progressively narrow down the area of the board and following it in with the 'scope probe. It turns out that 400MHz Tek 'scope probes don't survive being too close to a hot air gun - the plastic softened and the tip fell off. Whoops.
Tek 2445 $255 off of ebay
4-channel 150mhz way overkill for audio.I used one like it as a stand-a-lone scope in the F-15 EW test station on a daily basis . While I was in the Force. And the price was right!!
The cursors are real handy no calculator needed for time/freq conversion and provides a digital readout for voltages as well as time and freq.I'm lazy..........
Dave
4-channel 150mhz way overkill for audio.I used one like it as a stand-a-lone scope in the F-15 EW test station on a daily basis . While I was in the Force. And the price was right!!
The cursors are real handy no calculator needed for time/freq conversion and provides a digital readout for voltages as well as time and freq.I'm lazy..........
Dave
Attachments
But does it blend?
OK, so I picked up the 465 along with many assurances that I could bring it back, full refund, no questions asked anytime in the next two weeks. Unfortunately I fear I may need to test the validity of that warranty.
Upon powering up, I get the following- while messing around with switches can make it do a variety of things, none of them seem "quite right" to use the technical term. Just to make clear, this is with one probe attached, but not connected to anything.
Of course, I don't really know how to use this anyway, so maybe I'm just not doing it right, or maybe it's a small thing to repair, assuming I had any idea how to do so.
Suggestions?
OK, so I picked up the 465 along with many assurances that I could bring it back, full refund, no questions asked anytime in the next two weeks. Unfortunately I fear I may need to test the validity of that warranty.
Upon powering up, I get the following- while messing around with switches can make it do a variety of things, none of them seem "quite right" to use the technical term. Just to make clear, this is with one probe attached, but not connected to anything.
Of course, I don't really know how to use this anyway, so maybe I'm just not doing it right, or maybe it's a small thing to repair, assuming I had any idea how to do so.
Suggestions?
Attachments
That's a bit disturbing for not being connected to anything. Even hum should have a top half of the waveform. BTW, the 465 will go plenty bright enough to burn a permanent image into the CRT. You should never run so bright that there's a "bloom" around the trace. It may just be the photo, but if it really looks that way, turn the intensity down! Take a small piece of wire, hold it in your hand, and insert it in the input. You should be able to get a nice 60Hz trace, with both top and bottom. It should be stable if you line trigger, and stable if you adjust the normal triggering correctly. With no cable or anything, there should be no waveform, only a flat line, on any setting.
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