I have experience with both the CLIO 11 (similar to CLIO12) and NTi Flexus FX100. Depending on what you need to test for both have their plusses.
CLIO is easiest if you need to gather data of a full speaker with woofer/mid/tweeter and export the data for crossover design. There CLIO has better functionality and can export *.txt files with frequency/amplitude/phase data directly.
NTi has better functionality if you look at one driver at a time measurements or want to make a pass/fail type of measurements. I have not found a good way in there to export frequency/amplitude/phase data. It does capture amplitude and phase as separate measurements, but you'd need to combine the data later with some other tools if you'd like to get input for a crossover simulator.
So if you share more info on what exactly are your measurement needs I might be able to advise you some more.
CLIO is easiest if you need to gather data of a full speaker with woofer/mid/tweeter and export the data for crossover design. There CLIO has better functionality and can export *.txt files with frequency/amplitude/phase data directly.
NTi has better functionality if you look at one driver at a time measurements or want to make a pass/fail type of measurements. I have not found a good way in there to export frequency/amplitude/phase data. It does capture amplitude and phase as separate measurements, but you'd need to combine the data later with some other tools if you'd like to get input for a crossover simulator.
So if you share more info on what exactly are your measurement needs I might be able to advise you some more.
There are a few standards like CEA-2010 for subwoofers and CTA-2031 that define test methods for loudspeakers if you really want to do that properly and honestly. You'd have to buy the standard documents though as they are not freely available.
http://www.audiomatica.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/appnote_007.pdf
https://standards.cta.tech/kwspub/published_docs/ANSI-CTA-2031-R-2014-Preview.pdf
Speaker sensitivity (1W/1m or 2.83V/1m) is a good and useful metric. Loudspeaker power, especially PMPO is way too often just a marketing number that is made as high as possible to sell to naive customers.
http://www.audiomatica.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/appnote_007.pdf
https://standards.cta.tech/kwspub/published_docs/ANSI-CTA-2031-R-2014-Preview.pdf
Speaker sensitivity (1W/1m or 2.83V/1m) is a good and useful metric. Loudspeaker power, especially PMPO is way too often just a marketing number that is made as high as possible to sell to naive customers.
Based on the very basic questions you are asking that should be self evident from datasheet and user manuals I would suggest that at most get a CLIO pocket system
CLIO Pocket | Audiomatica Srl
That will also measure impedance and sensitivity of your 800W speaker while being easier to learn and use. The CLIO FW will be too complex to learn. You can get that later once you've learned enough.
CLIO Pocket | Audiomatica Srl
That will also measure impedance and sensitivity of your 800W speaker while being easier to learn and use. The CLIO FW will be too complex to learn. You can get that later once you've learned enough.
Very nice.
Basically it is a impedance/tsp measurement device.
It can measure some other stuff aswell, read the manual/datasheet.
For sensivity and frequency response I use the minidsp UMIK-1 mic and the free Room EQ Wizard software.
Repeated measurements are very close to each other so I guess it would be ok for qc.
I have speakers higher than 800w. can i also use clio pocket for those? i think im going to need to incorporate external amplifier for it. does it also accommodate high power amplifier?
thank you for that. but i think im leaning towards clio since it has more added features.
800+ Watt measurements with clio? what do you want to measure, what kind of QC are you doing? You haven't defined your requirements? You realize that sensitivity measurements only require a calibrated mic, then any system can technically do this.
Your questions are at a technical level that is very, very, very low. You seemingly need to learn quite a bit before you spend money on a measurement system.
Your questions are at a technical level that is very, very, very low. You seemingly need to learn quite a bit before you spend money on a measurement system.
QC is a funny thing. Quality is something you design and build into a product. Once your speaker is designed properly, you should really be looking for manufacturing defects and process defects rather than +/- xdB.
Furthermore, quality should be checking key parameters and looking for failures that are not tested out throughout the build process. So final QC is really about "Is it right", specification test is normally reserved for very specific parameters.
I have not set up quality testing for loudspeakers - but I have for plenty of other things. I doubt that you would want to test at anything like maximum power. Not the least because this is not a simple number for a loudspeaker.
I would be expecting to see a go/nogo test to check:
- Impedance would be a simple and quick test for a lot of faults
- If the value of system and volume of manufacture is low enough to warrant, testing FR is obviously possible. It would however mandate a test setup / area, in low volume / high value manufacture this would make sense. I bet it is not done for cheap speakers.
- Frequency response (identify out of spec drivers, wiring issues, faulty components)
- Check for buzzes / scrapes (faulty drivers etc)
Furthermore, quality should be checking key parameters and looking for failures that are not tested out throughout the build process. So final QC is really about "Is it right", specification test is normally reserved for very specific parameters.
I have not set up quality testing for loudspeakers - but I have for plenty of other things. I doubt that you would want to test at anything like maximum power. Not the least because this is not a simple number for a loudspeaker.
I would be expecting to see a go/nogo test to check:
- Impedance would be a simple and quick test for a lot of faults
- If the value of system and volume of manufacture is low enough to warrant, testing FR is obviously possible. It would however mandate a test setup / area, in low volume / high value manufacture this would make sense. I bet it is not done for cheap speakers.
- Frequency response (identify out of spec drivers, wiring issues, faulty components)
- Check for buzzes / scrapes (faulty drivers etc)
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I too am intrigued as to what it is you're trying to do, to test the power limit of a woofer, all you need is a function generator an amplifier and a volt meter and note at what power level the speaker stops making a sound.
But seriously, to get more dB (I'm assuming that is your aim) you need more speakers, loading a single speaker with more power is a fool's errand, because of the logarithmic nature of sound the difference in spl between 700w 800w or 900w input power is virtually detectable, worse, power compression just transfers all that extra power mostly into heat.
I'm pretty sure that no manufacturer actually does destructive testing, and power ratings come from the choice of wire thickness in the voicecoil.
Unless you're making a weapon, you just don't want to listen to a 800W speaker at 800W.
The Clio QC add on is quite expensive and usually used by manufacturers .You cannot use it on its own. From your posts you don't seem to know much about this subject. If so, you need to read and learn a lot more before buying expensive test equipment. Suggest you can make a start by downloading a user manual for the Clio 11 or 12 and go through it thoroughly till you understand what's written on every page. Maybe you will understand what you know or don't know. Have fun!
I know that some speakers are tested to destruction. Early GAUSS advertisements boasted of sending 800W pulses into nominal 75W horn drivers to find mechanical failures (lead anchor breakage). Electro-Voice had a series of papers on long-term testing with shaped noise, which seems to have made it (some changes) into a DIN standard. This was in the period when speakers (following amplifiers) were moving from 25W ratings to 600W ratings so I am sure they toasted and exploded a few coils. Of course anybody selling a "900 Watt!" subwoofer sure better test at that level or the warranty costs will bury them. And if a speaker will honestly stand FAR more than rated power, then it costs too much to make, and over-building is a real problem for profit/loss.
Yes, modern glues and formers, and data from destructive tests, make it possible now to estimate a power rating in advance. Still it would be foolish not to run some "non-destructive" test at FULL power, just to be sure it does not die.
I absolutely agree that Power Rating is NOT something which makes any sense unless you make or consume huge numbers of units. Gauss/EV/JBL do it on stuff they make. I have known large sound companies (buying a thousand drivers a year) take a new model out back next to a comparable speaker and beat it like cheap meat, to be sure it would hold-up good-as or better-than what they had been using.
I'm not disagreeing (much) with anything you've said, but as far as the thermal power rating is concerned, if the voice coil is fried than by definition the current has exceeded the maximum, and no speaker company is going to feel compelled to reimburse the operator for that. Similar if the mechanical excursion limits have been reached, and the cone is ripped, it may be a material failure, but with so much experience by speaker manufacturers, this is a pretty rare occurrence, at least compared to the number of people who have destroyed speaker through inexperience.
And maybe speaker box manufacturers test if the the speaker survives being dropped from a truck, but I'm confident they don't do any maximum power testing, they even tell you on the spec sheet, at least the semi honest ones do, by stating that maximum SPL is theoretical, when you follow the asterix.
And it is theoretical because at that power level the speaker is going to be so swamped with distortion to make it unlistenable.
Which goes back to the point I was trying to make before, knowing what the actual maximum power level is, what a speaker will take, really isn't that interesting and a waste of time to find out, imo.
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