Hello all!
I just bought myself an Audio Precision System One Dual Domain with the PCI computer interface card with interconnecting cable and got it running. This is the DSP version. Traded in my HP 8903A and some other instruments.
I started using it and found that it has a MLS Acoustic procedure, which is great! But it seems very basic. I have not found out if there is a way to do a MLSSA style cumulative spectral delay plot. Does anyone know how to do this? I imagine it could be done with some programming. Writing a script to move the start time forward in steps and making a 3D graph from that, but I don't know if the scripting environment supports 3D graphs. But I don't want spend more time programming in Basic than it would take me to write something from scratch in a real language.
I was also looking to do a anti-RIAA EQ to measure a phono stage. But it seems all very DIY and requiring a lot of programming in Basic to get anything done.
Perhaps there is a treasure trove out there with already programmed procedures?
Also I have read about a low noise mod - I am guessing it involves using some higher quality op-amps. Or is it something else? Any hard info on this?
Any pointers eagerly accepted!
Best regards,
P
I just bought myself an Audio Precision System One Dual Domain with the PCI computer interface card with interconnecting cable and got it running. This is the DSP version. Traded in my HP 8903A and some other instruments.
I started using it and found that it has a MLS Acoustic procedure, which is great! But it seems very basic. I have not found out if there is a way to do a MLSSA style cumulative spectral delay plot. Does anyone know how to do this? I imagine it could be done with some programming. Writing a script to move the start time forward in steps and making a 3D graph from that, but I don't know if the scripting environment supports 3D graphs. But I don't want spend more time programming in Basic than it would take me to write something from scratch in a real language.
I was also looking to do a anti-RIAA EQ to measure a phono stage. But it seems all very DIY and requiring a lot of programming in Basic to get anything done.
Perhaps there is a treasure trove out there with already programmed procedures?
Also I have read about a low noise mod - I am guessing it involves using some higher quality op-amps. Or is it something else? Any hard info on this?
Any pointers eagerly accepted!
Best regards,
P
Check the generator panel and manual, IIRC that's possible (it surely is with the later models).
Samuel
Thanks!
I found how to do the RIAA pre and de-emphasis. Nice.
I am still working on the MLS acoustic test and how to make a waterfall. I hope I can write a Visual Basic procedure for this inside the APWIN tool. I haven't found any 3D graphing object yet though. I guess another option is to use the Matlab link. And yet another option is to use the external API and write something in C#. I am surprised that there is nothing ready made though.
I am also annoyed by the noisy fan on the front. Has anyone made a temperature regulator for it or replaced it with a quiet version?
I just tried out the procedure to check the impedance curve of a speaker, nice too. All in all I anticipate a lot of enjoyment from using my AP!
Best regards,
Peter
I found how to do the RIAA pre and de-emphasis. Nice.
I am still working on the MLS acoustic test and how to make a waterfall. I hope I can write a Visual Basic procedure for this inside the APWIN tool. I haven't found any 3D graphing object yet though. I guess another option is to use the Matlab link. And yet another option is to use the external API and write something in C#. I am surprised that there is nothing ready made though.
I am also annoyed by the noisy fan on the front. Has anyone made a temperature regulator for it or replaced it with a quiet version?
I just tried out the procedure to check the impedance curve of a speaker, nice too. All in all I anticipate a lot of enjoyment from using my AP!
Best regards,
Peter
Hello, Peter,
Have you found any c# resource about System One (APWIN) programming. I could only find one for AP2700.
Thanks,
Ted
Have you found any c# resource about System One (APWIN) programming. I could only find one for AP2700.
Thanks,
Ted
Hi Peter
The AP BASIC (scripting) will do this. Write a single sweep. INC the start time var, sweep again, and up to x Time.
1. Make a TEST. save it
2.Write the procedure. Open test, Append test, run test, INC T,run test X TIMES, save test with new name.
The plot will show the waterfall with different colors.
I do know that my short overview may lead to many other questions. I have about 30 years of AP usage.
Duke
OOPS: Replace it with a new one. DON'T REMOVE IT. There are many HOT SPOTS inside and it would need many thermal sensors to work. The design was made to have a small flow of cool air @ all times. I worked for AP for many years.
The AP BASIC (scripting) will do this. Write a single sweep. INC the start time var, sweep again, and up to x Time.
1. Make a TEST. save it
2.Write the procedure. Open test, Append test, run test, INC T,run test X TIMES, save test with new name.
The plot will show the waterfall with different colors.
I do know that my short overview may lead to many other questions. I have about 30 years of AP usage.
Duke
OOPS: Replace it with a new one. DON'T REMOVE IT. There are many HOT SPOTS inside and it would need many thermal sensors to work. The design was made to have a small flow of cool air @ all times. I worked for AP for many years.
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Hello again!
So I finally got around to really starting to use the AP, world record in slow progress! But it seems AP no longer has all the files available for System One on their website, or am I not remembering it right?
Specifically there should be a file called a-a_riaa.at1 somewhere, the F1 help key mentions it, but I cant' find it anywhere. Also I remember seeing something downloadable that would allow me to generate a MLSSA style "waterfall" but I can't find that either.
Is there a AP repository somewhere for older System One files?
Best regards,
Peter
So I finally got around to really starting to use the AP, world record in slow progress! But it seems AP no longer has all the files available for System One on their website, or am I not remembering it right?
Specifically there should be a file called a-a_riaa.at1 somewhere, the F1 help key mentions it, but I cant' find it anywhere. Also I remember seeing something downloadable that would allow me to generate a MLSSA style "waterfall" but I can't find that either.
Is there a AP repository somewhere for older System One files?
Best regards,
Peter
Hello!
Do you know where to look? I tried googling with site:ap.com legacy and site:ap.com "system one" riaa but I only find the search dialog with the "standard" stuff like:
https://www.ap.com/software/utilities-projects-macros/
https://www.ap.com/software/configuration-files/
No file that might contain a-a_riaa.at1 - I seem to recall loads more downloads before!? It would be annoying to have to write test procedures again for everything when they exist already...
Thanks for the pointer though!
Peter
Do you know where to look? I tried googling with site:ap.com legacy and site:ap.com "system one" riaa but I only find the search dialog with the "standard" stuff like:
https://www.ap.com/software/utilities-projects-macros/
https://www.ap.com/software/configuration-files/
No file that might contain a-a_riaa.at1 - I seem to recall loads more downloads before!? It would be annoying to have to write test procedures again for everything when they exist already...
Thanks for the pointer though!
Peter
Hi Peter & All
Join LinkedIn, Classic AP Audio Systems Group LA
Post your questions and many real users may be able to help you.
I worked for AP for several years and provide service and programming.
Look also @ SOUND LOGIC LA ... this may also help.
I can also send some old canned AP tests that you cant find.
Duke
Join LinkedIn, Classic AP Audio Systems Group LA
Post your questions and many real users may be able to help you.
I worked for AP for several years and provide service and programming.
Look also @ SOUND LOGIC LA ... this may also help.
I can also send some old canned AP tests that you cant find.
Duke
Duke,
Is there any chance that the AP users group will ever move to a proper forum space? Aside from the many other issues U have with Linked In the group format is impossible to use or search properly. There is some fantastic info there but I gave up and cancelled my Linked In account.
Cheers,
Ruairi
Is there any chance that the AP users group will ever move to a proper forum space? Aside from the many other issues U have with Linked In the group format is impossible to use or search properly. There is some fantastic info there but I gave up and cancelled my Linked In account.
Cheers,
Ruairi
Hi rauiri
Jim started the "Classic AP Audio Systems Group" way back then. Jim passed and I lost control of the group. I then started "Classic AP Audio Systems Group LA" to continue. The search is not great however. it is easy on the $$ and time.
I'm not in love with the way it works, however trying to put this on like a site like "diyaudio" or other web site it opens up to everyone. Some people with BS and New Physics rules get in the way of progress. I like the group to be focused on the single task get the job done. I like to have/present new learning about the practical use of the systems & tools.
If you have a better way please comment to me by PM.
Duke
Jim started the "Classic AP Audio Systems Group" way back then. Jim passed and I lost control of the group. I then started "Classic AP Audio Systems Group LA" to continue. The search is not great however. it is easy on the $$ and time.
I'm not in love with the way it works, however trying to put this on like a site like "diyaudio" or other web site it opens up to everyone. Some people with BS and New Physics rules get in the way of progress. I like the group to be focused on the single task get the job done. I like to have/present new learning about the practical use of the systems & tools.
If you have a better way please comment to me by PM.
Duke
Nice! I think I already have joined the AP at LinkedIn, but have not been active there. I will post something there too, great tip.
I did get a RIAA test working last night just using the EQ... Note to self: select EQ in the generator as source, just selecting the EQ cure is not enough! Now I just have to sort out the issue that the RIAA response of the amp i am building as a slight through at around 150Hz. Less than half a dB but it's annoying!
APs are nice but i sure wish there was another way to program then than using Basic! I am a Unix/Linux guy myself and am more happy with C/Perl/PHP style languages. Perhaps I will some day write some Linux code that takes direct control of the AP...
If you do have any old test please PM me and send them if you can!
Thank!
Peter
I did get a RIAA test working last night just using the EQ... Note to self: select EQ in the generator as source, just selecting the EQ cure is not enough! Now I just have to sort out the issue that the RIAA response of the amp i am building as a slight through at around 150Hz. Less than half a dB but it's annoying!
APs are nice but i sure wish there was another way to program then than using Basic! I am a Unix/Linux guy myself and am more happy with C/Perl/PHP style languages. Perhaps I will some day write some Linux code that takes direct control of the AP...
If you do have any old test please PM me and send them if you can!
Thank!
Peter
Just because your System One is old, you can still call AP tech support. Bill has been there for 25+ years. He probably wrote the RIAA curve and can help you find it.
MLS on APs is pretty basic. It doesn't work below 300 Hz if memory serves me right. There is no 3D plotting for waterfall curves. Audio1Man's suggesting for appending traces will give you many colorful traces but the colors will not have any meaning (e.g. a representation of amplitude).
MLS on APs is pretty basic. It doesn't work below 300 Hz if memory serves me right. There is no 3D plotting for waterfall curves. Audio1Man's suggesting for appending traces will give you many colorful traces but the colors will not have any meaning (e.g. a representation of amplitude).
I bought this System One at the time of my first post here 2013 tested it and it's been sitting mostly since then. I seem to recall that the MLS related to the DSP memory? I have the small memory but I think it would be pretty easy to make a PCB with some SRAM chips. I looked at Farnell recently and Nowadays you can get 1 Mbit (128Kx8) for $2-3 each. I might make a PCB for that if it will give me better MLS and share it (if someone could do some extra error checking that would be nice). I made the schematic for it in gEDA on Linux a while back. Could be a group project!
Now I am SURE i saw some AP external program for "real" waterfall displays somewhere sometime. I recall it as a separate program... but where?
Could the 300Hz be related to memory limitations? Or is it not rather just the first reflection time, if it's too soon you won't be going low!
And BTW why would the amplitude be no good with the Audio1Man-method? I seem to recall that the waterfall is just shifting the time window forward a step for each line? I have near allergic relationship to Basic but... Or?
Now I am SURE i saw some AP external program for "real" waterfall displays somewhere sometime. I recall it as a separate program... but where?
Could the 300Hz be related to memory limitations? Or is it not rather just the first reflection time, if it's too soon you won't be going low!
And BTW why would the amplitude be no good with the Audio1Man-method? I seem to recall that the waterfall is just shifting the time window forward a step for each line? I have near allergic relationship to Basic but... Or?
You are correct, you need a Sys-222 (analog + DSP) or Sys-322 (analog+digital) unit to perform MLS. I am not aware of two different memory sizes for the System 1 but I joined the company after they were discontinued. My concern would be making sure the firmware and software could recognize any memory you add. Perhaps Audio1Man has more information.I seem to recall that the MLS related to the DSP memory? I have the small memory but I think it would be pretty easy to make a PCB with some SRAM chips. I looked at Farnell recently and Nowadays you can get 1 Mbit (128Kx8) for $2-3 each. I might make a PCB for that if it will give me better MLS and share it (if someone could do some extra error checking that would be nice). I made the schematic for it in gEDA on Linux a while back. Could be a group project!
Yeah, perhaps it is this utility that I looked at before. Think it was if this is the one you refer to?
https://www.ap.com/technical-library/waterfall-csd-plots-with-apx/
APx CSD Utility
The APx500 CSD Utility is a Windows application for making a Cumulative Spectral Decay (CSD) plot, sometimes referred to as a waterfall plot, from the measured impulse response of a loudspeaker. The utility, which runs in a small window outside the APx500 software, uses impulse response data measured with APx to calculate and plot a CSD.
Requirements
To use the APx CSD utility, a matching version of the APx500 measurement software must be installed on the PC. For example, if APx500 v3.4 is being used, v3.4 of the CSD utility is also required.
The APx CSD utility also requires the SPK-RD software option to be installed on the connected APx audio analyzer. If you require a SPK-RD software option, please contact your Audio Precision sales representative.
Soooo, that is a non starter for me. Hmmm, perhaps the basic scripting route is to be tried!
Regarding memory you can look in the service manual. There is base memory and an expansion board. There where several versions of the expansion board which gave 96K x 24 bits (the width of the Motrola DSP 56K). The expansion board us just some 74 series buffers and some memory chips. In the original versions there where several chips as they just weren't that big. Now one could use three 128Kx8 chips and perhaps even skip the buffers.
But as you say, it hinges on the system recognizing the expansion board memory if it's there! Anyone know if anything special needs to get done to install a MEM board?
https://www.ap.com/technical-library/waterfall-csd-plots-with-apx/
APx CSD Utility
The APx500 CSD Utility is a Windows application for making a Cumulative Spectral Decay (CSD) plot, sometimes referred to as a waterfall plot, from the measured impulse response of a loudspeaker. The utility, which runs in a small window outside the APx500 software, uses impulse response data measured with APx to calculate and plot a CSD.
Requirements
To use the APx CSD utility, a matching version of the APx500 measurement software must be installed on the PC. For example, if APx500 v3.4 is being used, v3.4 of the CSD utility is also required.
The APx CSD utility also requires the SPK-RD software option to be installed on the connected APx audio analyzer. If you require a SPK-RD software option, please contact your Audio Precision sales representative.
Soooo, that is a non starter for me. Hmmm, perhaps the basic scripting route is to be tried!
Regarding memory you can look in the service manual. There is base memory and an expansion board. There where several versions of the expansion board which gave 96K x 24 bits (the width of the Motrola DSP 56K). The expansion board us just some 74 series buffers and some memory chips. In the original versions there where several chips as they just weren't that big. Now one could use three 128Kx8 chips and perhaps even skip the buffers.
But as you say, it hinges on the system recognizing the expansion board memory if it's there! Anyone know if anything special needs to get done to install a MEM board?
Yup, that is the utility I was referring to.
Audio1Man (Duke) might be able to answer the memory question. Or, you might try calling John Payne AP's tech support guy for hardware. Chances are your System One has his initials on the back panel. He knows that hardware better than anyone else there. I think he is their longest term employee (not including the remaining founder).
Audio1Man (Duke) might be able to answer the memory question. Or, you might try calling John Payne AP's tech support guy for hardware. Chances are your System One has his initials on the back panel. He knows that hardware better than anyone else there. I think he is their longest term employee (not including the remaining founder).
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