Hello Folks,
I´m looking for a suitable tool for a DIYer living in a city flat...
The last speakers I have build where based on drawings and the wood cutting was done by a local company for me, this time I would preffer to do it my self, one reason is the price a second the feeling, its just something else if its done by your self
Now my issue, I need a tool that is able to handle 1inch high quality MDF boards, it should cut holes, for speakers up to 12 inches...
F I work in the kitchen, I do not see the router as a suitable tool to work with in the kitchen, although, should I have a garden or garage I would definitely go for that.
I was looking around the web, and found no real substitute, but one thing seems to be a option, the Dremel Trio:Dremel Trio? / Model: 6800
Does have someone any experience with that? My concern is the depth and power...
Any recommendations...
Thanks,
Daniel
I´m looking for a suitable tool for a DIYer living in a city flat...
The last speakers I have build where based on drawings and the wood cutting was done by a local company for me, this time I would preffer to do it my self, one reason is the price a second the feeling, its just something else if its done by your self
Now my issue, I need a tool that is able to handle 1inch high quality MDF boards, it should cut holes, for speakers up to 12 inches...
F I work in the kitchen, I do not see the router as a suitable tool to work with in the kitchen, although, should I have a garden or garage I would definitely go for that.
I was looking around the web, and found no real substitute, but one thing seems to be a option, the Dremel Trio:Dremel Trio? / Model: 6800
Does have someone any experience with that? My concern is the depth and power...
Any recommendations...
Thanks,
Daniel
I don't own one but had the pleasure of using one. Would I get one though?
No.
But that is me, I have a house, garage, and a driveway. I have space and I have tools which are more powerful and versatile.
I digress. The Dremel Trio is a mini mini router. Plain and simple. I tried it at my friend's house on some nice Norwiegan White Birch plywood that was supposed to turn into parts of a small speaker box like housing for a flip digit clock and radio -- about the size of two Tivoli Model One radios side by side for a rough estimate. Simple cuts for sides, window, 3 inch speakers, mounting holes, access holes, and holes for various buttons and dials. Nothing curved or wavy other than the two speaker holes and vent.
Started off by breaking the first multipurpose bit (supposed to be able to cut and drill). Put on another bit used to cut the sides. After the first two cuts with the Dremel, we switched to a circular saw with a nice blade to reduce chipping. Those first two cuts with the Dremel were very clean, nice, and chip free, but slow and nerve wracking in that I didn't want to break another bit. The saw was faster but a little because of the speed and resistance of the blade with the same results of a good clean cut, only minus the nerves and worry.
The Dremel started up again for one speaker hole with my friend at the helm. Another bit went snap and we were stuck without router bit... We weren't sure if it was the material or the pressure or the tool bogging down from lack of torque. I grabbed my Bosch Colt from the car and hooked it up to finish the job. The difference was evident from the start, the Bosch did not bog down or slow down in speed much spinning wise and routed much easier without worry.
Now we would have used the Dremel with some of my spare roter bits i had for the Bosch, but the problem with the Dremel was that it uses a proprietary smaller sized diameter bit and doesn't take the 1/4 inch standard bits. So that was something we did not expect (and had my friend known, he would have thought twice about it), so if you get the Dremel, you have to buy Dremel bits.
That Dremel sized bit was the deal killer for me because I have two routers (the Bosch and a hand me down fixed base Ryobi which found a home in a router table) that use 1/4 inch bits. I have both good and cheap bits that I purchased on sale here and there at different stores and garage sales. Sometimes, you just need that certain profile, so you go out and buy it. In the end, you tend to chose the appropriate bit for the job you are tasked with. I can chose the Bosch Colt when I want to freehand or run it along a straight edge or put what I need routed on a router table and attack it with the Ryobi. Can't do that with the Dremel.
The Dremel would probably be better for smaller jobs like finer detail work or plunge cuts on softer woods or on thinner stock, but on half an inch of plywood it didn't shine too well.
The Bosch Colt cost me $175 plus tax on sale up here I Canada many years ago. I think it is the same price or so still.
My two cents. Good luck and hope that this helps you in making a decision.
No.
But that is me, I have a house, garage, and a driveway. I have space and I have tools which are more powerful and versatile.
I digress. The Dremel Trio is a mini mini router. Plain and simple. I tried it at my friend's house on some nice Norwiegan White Birch plywood that was supposed to turn into parts of a small speaker box like housing for a flip digit clock and radio -- about the size of two Tivoli Model One radios side by side for a rough estimate. Simple cuts for sides, window, 3 inch speakers, mounting holes, access holes, and holes for various buttons and dials. Nothing curved or wavy other than the two speaker holes and vent.
Started off by breaking the first multipurpose bit (supposed to be able to cut and drill). Put on another bit used to cut the sides. After the first two cuts with the Dremel, we switched to a circular saw with a nice blade to reduce chipping. Those first two cuts with the Dremel were very clean, nice, and chip free, but slow and nerve wracking in that I didn't want to break another bit. The saw was faster but a little because of the speed and resistance of the blade with the same results of a good clean cut, only minus the nerves and worry.
The Dremel started up again for one speaker hole with my friend at the helm. Another bit went snap and we were stuck without router bit... We weren't sure if it was the material or the pressure or the tool bogging down from lack of torque. I grabbed my Bosch Colt from the car and hooked it up to finish the job. The difference was evident from the start, the Bosch did not bog down or slow down in speed much spinning wise and routed much easier without worry.
Now we would have used the Dremel with some of my spare roter bits i had for the Bosch, but the problem with the Dremel was that it uses a proprietary smaller sized diameter bit and doesn't take the 1/4 inch standard bits. So that was something we did not expect (and had my friend known, he would have thought twice about it), so if you get the Dremel, you have to buy Dremel bits.
That Dremel sized bit was the deal killer for me because I have two routers (the Bosch and a hand me down fixed base Ryobi which found a home in a router table) that use 1/4 inch bits. I have both good and cheap bits that I purchased on sale here and there at different stores and garage sales. Sometimes, you just need that certain profile, so you go out and buy it. In the end, you tend to chose the appropriate bit for the job you are tasked with. I can chose the Bosch Colt when I want to freehand or run it along a straight edge or put what I need routed on a router table and attack it with the Ryobi. Can't do that with the Dremel.
The Dremel would probably be better for smaller jobs like finer detail work or plunge cuts on softer woods or on thinner stock, but on half an inch of plywood it didn't shine too well.
The Bosch Colt cost me $175 plus tax on sale up here I Canada many years ago. I think it is the same price or so still.
My two cents. Good luck and hope that this helps you in making a decision.
The Bosch is a trim router so it is smaller and can be one-handed. Porter Cable, Dewalt, and there are few other companies out there make them too. I bought it for light work, but tend to use it for some big jobs in tight places (lighter and smaller for manouvering and using it on installed pieces), but that is me. For big work, I will still go to the router table and bigger router for speed and easier usage and straighter cuts. Plunge cutting, I end up using the Bosch because it is light keeping in mind I have to use it like a small router than a full sized one (it can get away from you if not careful).
You could probably last with the one smaller because of size of your living space but like all routers, there can be a lot of dust made. Read reviews and form your opinion on how much you will use it, where, and your own ability.
Good luck!
You could probably last with the one smaller because of size of your living space but like all routers, there can be a lot of dust made. Read reviews and form your opinion on how much you will use it, where, and your own ability.
Good luck!
Hello Folks,
I´m looking for a suitable tool for a DIYer living in a city flat...
The last speakers I have build where based on drawings and the wood cutting was done by a local company for me, this time I would preffer to do it my self, one reason is the price a second the feeling, its just something else if its done by your self
Now my issue, I need a tool that is able to handle 1inch high quality MDF boards, it should cut holes, for speakers up to 12 inches...
F I work in the kitchen, I do not see the router as a suitable tool to work with in the kitchen, although, should I have a garden or garage I would definitely go for that.
I was looking around the web, and found no real substitute, but one thing seems to be a option, the Dremel Trio:Dremel Trio? / Model: 6800
Does have someone any experience with that? My concern is the depth and power...
Any recommendations...
Thanks,
Daniel
I bought a small Makita router with 4 different feet a little while ago. Not cheap, around 350 Euro's, but highly recommendable for speaker building. It seems a well built little machine that runs virtually vibrationless. With a good vacuum cleaner attached, dust is very well controlled.
vac
OK it seems a small router is may be the best option, the colt is not sold in Europa, its quite cheap in US, but the customs and taxes and freight would make it cost twice so much...
The 350 Eur Makita is a way above my budged,... but I´m certain I will find a nice small durable option that will be affordable
The 350 Eur Makita is a way above my budged,... but I´m certain I will find a nice small durable option that will be affordable
Well I really envy you in the US and Canada, the part are there so much cheaper, even those produced in Europe... and you have much more choices...
I dont knew what a pain will it be to buy one of those routers, Ok would I have hundrets of euros to go it would be easier, but to get a decent tool in Europe for about up to 150 USD that is a real chalenge, non of them so far deliverd decent performance,... still looking for one.
The Festools are really expensive
I dont knew what a pain will it be to buy one of those routers, Ok would I have hundrets of euros to go it would be easier, but to get a decent tool in Europe for about up to 150 USD that is a real chalenge, non of them so far deliverd decent performance,... still looking for one.
The Festools are really expensive
Don't envy us in over here because were envying you being over there. We always want what others have (until we live there). Choice and inventory over here is a myth in Canada, I had to run to a three of the same chain of Home depot before I can find stock to get two RIGID worm drive circular saws (I have given up on sidewinders, burn them out one after another and bending over the other way to see what you are cutting is the pits).
Wow. I wonder why that pricing is so bad over there? Can't be because of the 110 to 220 voltage changes because personally I dislike some of the size tools we have compared to the European/Asian similar tools (I picked up a circular saw in Hong Kong once and it was very noticeable lighter because of smaller electric motor because of higher voltage, lower amperage, smaller wires/windings, thinner cord to the wall, running cooler, as I was told).
On Festools, trust me Festools here is very expensive compared to Skil, DeWalt (which is Black and Decker/Stanley Tools), Ryobi, and others... If I had the coin, I would totally grab a few of their tools. They just seem to be solid built and sensible.
With that said, if I had to get a tool and had the time and knowledge of the tool and wood, I would get a router. I could do away with a lot of my tools with that one router. My friend's father (I think I told this story before in another thread) has nothing but a router (well a couple of them) and would rather pick up a router than a drill, table saw (he has one, but for long boards and making bed headboards), jigsaw, handsaw, or anything. He said talking to me, "...I could do what your do with all my tools with a single router, better, faster, and a whole lot more dustier."
And I believe him as he makes furniture for a serious hobby and wicked looking tables with joinery that is out of this world. That and his probably 45+ years of experience makes my work look second rate and cheap.
Then there is my in-law's neighbour, also another router guy and he is only 50 years old or so. Same thing, but in 1/4 inch router only (he never changed to the 3/8 shank like my friend's father did) and he does make some nice stuff too.
I will also add, that they both agree that you need hearing protection, a dust mask, patience, and watch a lot of TV with router people talking about routers (Youtube for me). Never, never, never, buy tired looking used/second-hand router (too many problems). The only time you buy a second-hand router is when the person you buy it from didn't use it for more than a few hours and gave up on it early because of lack of skill and patience.
See if there are any woodcrafter/furniture maker/powertool shows in your area coming up soon. Sometimes there are "show specials" from the manufacturers near the end of the show so they don't have to lug all that unsold stock back with them home. I got a lot of my good bits and base plate attachments by bargaining with cash. The tools would have been cheaper there than at Home Depot or Lowes here.
Wow. I wonder why that pricing is so bad over there? Can't be because of the 110 to 220 voltage changes because personally I dislike some of the size tools we have compared to the European/Asian similar tools (I picked up a circular saw in Hong Kong once and it was very noticeable lighter because of smaller electric motor because of higher voltage, lower amperage, smaller wires/windings, thinner cord to the wall, running cooler, as I was told).
On Festools, trust me Festools here is very expensive compared to Skil, DeWalt (which is Black and Decker/Stanley Tools), Ryobi, and others... If I had the coin, I would totally grab a few of their tools. They just seem to be solid built and sensible.
With that said, if I had to get a tool and had the time and knowledge of the tool and wood, I would get a router. I could do away with a lot of my tools with that one router. My friend's father (I think I told this story before in another thread) has nothing but a router (well a couple of them) and would rather pick up a router than a drill, table saw (he has one, but for long boards and making bed headboards), jigsaw, handsaw, or anything. He said talking to me, "...I could do what your do with all my tools with a single router, better, faster, and a whole lot more dustier."
And I believe him as he makes furniture for a serious hobby and wicked looking tables with joinery that is out of this world. That and his probably 45+ years of experience makes my work look second rate and cheap.
Then there is my in-law's neighbour, also another router guy and he is only 50 years old or so. Same thing, but in 1/4 inch router only (he never changed to the 3/8 shank like my friend's father did) and he does make some nice stuff too.
I will also add, that they both agree that you need hearing protection, a dust mask, patience, and watch a lot of TV with router people talking about routers (Youtube for me). Never, never, never, buy tired looking used/second-hand router (too many problems). The only time you buy a second-hand router is when the person you buy it from didn't use it for more than a few hours and gave up on it early because of lack of skill and patience.
See if there are any woodcrafter/furniture maker/powertool shows in your area coming up soon. Sometimes there are "show specials" from the manufacturers near the end of the show so they don't have to lug all that unsold stock back with them home. I got a lot of my good bits and base plate attachments by bargaining with cash. The tools would have been cheaper there than at Home Depot or Lowes here.
I was looking around what I could get and for the money I fond this "no-name" brand Tooltime :: Product : X093 POWER PLUS ROUTER 1500W VARIABLE SPEED (INCL 12 BITS)
I could get it from Germany for 90Eur.
It has variable speed and seems to have a finetune adjust. Even a case and few drills...
It seems to miss the power consistency unit that have the more expensive BOSH units, that controlles the constant RPMs, but I get I could miss that.
The next issue seems to be the vibrations, I have no Idea how much the thing vibrates, and how noisy it gets.
I could get it from Germany for 90Eur.
It has variable speed and seems to have a finetune adjust. Even a case and few drills...
It seems to miss the power consistency unit that have the more expensive BOSH units, that controlles the constant RPMs, but I get I could miss that.
The next issue seems to be the vibrations, I have no Idea how much the thing vibrates, and how noisy it gets.
Look it up on Google and see the specs and reviews for it. Most vibration comes from the bit being unbalanced (rare for good and okay bits), the collet coming all lose from being old (they can get loose over time, but more age and abuse), or the bearings inside (rare because they should be built to last). I was told that if all is good, "router chatter" (in 1/4 inch bits, less in the thicker 1/2 inch shanks) is a small problem and that I should seat the bit as deeply as it will go for the work and tool, and adjust the depth of the plunge on the router plunger.
Also check out the router's specs to see if this is the right size for you to use. The power compensator thing in the Bosch is nice to have, but all you have to do is back off and let the tool's RPMs catch up with your movement down and around the stock you are working on -- my Ryobi in the router table winds down when I start, but a smooth gliding push with just enough pressure makes it just as good as my Bosch (and I don't miss it one bit because I know what to expect from the cheap Ryobi -- my cost for the Ryobi was free, but you can find the my same model on sale for $65).
But before you buy, check out the Youtube videos on using a router. See if it is right tool for you to be using. None of my other friends know how to use a router (or router table) if their life depended on it and would probably burn the wood or do something worse to their hands. If you think that this is the way you want to go, then sure. Also, see if there are any courses on using a router at your college or school nearby at night. They will teach you all about speed versus bit size versus wood type and you will not burn mark any wood and save a lot of headache. Or again, there are probably "Learn how to use a Router this way and that way" videos on Youtube.
I have not met a router that is not noisy or have a high pitched cat stuck in a vacuum cleaner whine (again, Youtube and turn up the volume). They are all noisy, so yes ear muffs or plugs and goggles and do it outside on the balcony because of dust.
Also check out the router's specs to see if this is the right size for you to use. The power compensator thing in the Bosch is nice to have, but all you have to do is back off and let the tool's RPMs catch up with your movement down and around the stock you are working on -- my Ryobi in the router table winds down when I start, but a smooth gliding push with just enough pressure makes it just as good as my Bosch (and I don't miss it one bit because I know what to expect from the cheap Ryobi -- my cost for the Ryobi was free, but you can find the my same model on sale for $65).
But before you buy, check out the Youtube videos on using a router. See if it is right tool for you to be using. None of my other friends know how to use a router (or router table) if their life depended on it and would probably burn the wood or do something worse to their hands. If you think that this is the way you want to go, then sure. Also, see if there are any courses on using a router at your college or school nearby at night. They will teach you all about speed versus bit size versus wood type and you will not burn mark any wood and save a lot of headache. Or again, there are probably "Learn how to use a Router this way and that way" videos on Youtube.
I have not met a router that is not noisy or have a high pitched cat stuck in a vacuum cleaner whine (again, Youtube and turn up the volume). They are all noisy, so yes ear muffs or plugs and goggles and do it outside on the balcony because of dust.
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Whoops, in my haste and not owning the other popular sized router in North America, I need to correct myself.
It is 1/2 inch and NOT 3/8 inch as I had posted previously in #10. Mostly because I own 1/4 inch routers and 1/4 inch bits, my world has a limited view. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused.
It is 1/2 inch and NOT 3/8 inch as I had posted previously in #10. Mostly because I own 1/4 inch routers and 1/4 inch bits, my world has a limited view. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused.
Dremel rotary tools use 1/8" shank bits. They are definitely not proprietary to Dremel, and many compatible bits can be found at very inexpensive prices.
Ahhh... That is what I thought too at the time. But it turns out that the Dremel Trio uses 3/16 inch shank size and not the 1/8 inch (believe me, we tried but I left that out of the story). 1/8 inch is Rotozip and a whole bunch of others like the regular Dremel, Craftsman, Mastercraft (being Canadian we all know Mastercraft), etc. tools.
This note about the Trio's uniqueness is also plastered all over Dremel's Official website when you look at the Trio accessory list:
"Note: The Dremel Trio uses only Trio accessories. Dremel rotary tool accessories are not compatible with the Trio tool."
This note about the Trio's uniqueness is also plastered all over Dremel's Official website when you look at the Trio accessory list:
"Note: The Dremel Trio uses only Trio accessories. Dremel rotary tool accessories are not compatible with the Trio tool."
I hate to be the one here to spoil the fun, but IMHO, woodworking as a hobby is a bad choice for someone living in a small urban apartment (flat). You'll need to haul sheet of wood up and down stairs. Do you have a means to get plywood from the store to your house? In Prague? Routers make more sawdust than you could imagine which will get everywhere, and sanding makes a very fine dust which will coat everything in your home, and clog up your air filters. How's your ventilation? Most stains, varnishes, thinners, brush cleaners etc . . . emit harmful fumes. Maybe you could do the work outside? But what a hassle!
If you really love DIY audio, I recommend building yourself electronic stuff, like amplifiers, preamps, X-overs, D/A converters etc . . . It takes a lot less space, a let fewer tools (soldering iron, multimeter, and an assortment of small hand tools). It's quiet and not messy. Putting your creation into a nice aluminum enclosure usually requires a hand drill, some tin snips, and maybe a "nibbler" (RadioShack HT-204 Nibbling Tool : Hobby & Do-It-Yourself | RadioShack.com).
Incidentally, the only thing I use my Dremmel router for is countersinking drivers 4mm at most. I cut holes with a jigsaw.
-Byron
If you really love DIY audio, I recommend building yourself electronic stuff, like amplifiers, preamps, X-overs, D/A converters etc . . . It takes a lot less space, a let fewer tools (soldering iron, multimeter, and an assortment of small hand tools). It's quiet and not messy. Putting your creation into a nice aluminum enclosure usually requires a hand drill, some tin snips, and maybe a "nibbler" (RadioShack HT-204 Nibbling Tool : Hobby & Do-It-Yourself | RadioShack.com).
Incidentally, the only thing I use my Dremmel router for is countersinking drivers 4mm at most. I cut holes with a jigsaw.
-Byron
the main reason for the router is the idea of building own speaker boxes, so no big immense of wood working, cutting a hole, working the edges.
The only place I can do it is the kitchen that can be closed by the doors and has nothing inside that could be harmed...
I already build a hi-fi table there, but that was more drilling holes .... so I hope some small stuff can be done there. Outside the flat is unfortunately no option, neighbors would be a problem.
The only place I can do it is the kitchen that can be closed by the doors and has nothing inside that could be harmed...
I already build a hi-fi table there, but that was more drilling holes .... so I hope some small stuff can be done there. Outside the flat is unfortunately no option, neighbors would be a problem.
Makita is a well respected brand here in Canada and are just above the middle when it comes to price for similar tools from other brands. I've only had one Makita though (a small VSR drill and as usual I got it on sale) so I can't speak for their whole line, but they are pretty tough if my little drill is any indication.
But like I said before, will it do what you want it to do? Is it something you want to get into? Can you handle it? Have you checked out the various instructional videos on Youtube? Checked out the cost of all the bits? How much will you use? Because if you are going to make a hobby of this and make a dozen pairs of speakers, then great.
You still have to factor in the cost of a few clamps (you will use them for gluing also), a good and relatively thick enough straight edge (so the router base can ride along it), hearing protection, safety glasses, and a vacuum cleaner.
My distant uncle in Hong Kong does woodworking, makes very simple boxes with good joinery, makes his own speakers (which he always ends up selling or giving as presents to his realtive's kids when they marry), and refreshes one or two old tube amplifiers now and then with new caps, components, and adds wood sides (but if he can't add wood, then little interest). His living space is about 75 square meters. He has an old fixed base silver coloured router older than me, an equally old variable speed drill, and a newish circular saw as power tools. And add in the vacuum, bits and blades, hammer, screwdrivers, good supply supply of clamps, clamping table, and chisels. All of this fits into a closet and you can't tell the spare former bedroom was other than a hobby room (don't look at the battle scarred floor). The walls are extra thick with concrete, so all the noise only can go through his front door and the windows. I think that I am in paradise with all the space I have, but he says he wouldn't have it any other way as he says it saves him money from buying too much wood (I found out that you can buy standard wood stock in Hong Kong cut to approximate lengths and pay a small premium for JUST that much stock) and too many more tools. My aunt has her TV, radio, her couch, knitting, and her stove -- I think that she is the reason why he doesn't have more tools.
He has slowed down after seeing the kits available out there (he had bought the SEAS Idunn kit and was shocked at how good the workmaship could be for a mass produced kit). I am still waiting for a full range or a folded horn, but he said I have to come and get it because he won't ship it.
The point is, if he can do it, with a lot of dedication you can too.
But like I said before, will it do what you want it to do? Is it something you want to get into? Can you handle it? Have you checked out the various instructional videos on Youtube? Checked out the cost of all the bits? How much will you use? Because if you are going to make a hobby of this and make a dozen pairs of speakers, then great.
You still have to factor in the cost of a few clamps (you will use them for gluing also), a good and relatively thick enough straight edge (so the router base can ride along it), hearing protection, safety glasses, and a vacuum cleaner.
My distant uncle in Hong Kong does woodworking, makes very simple boxes with good joinery, makes his own speakers (which he always ends up selling or giving as presents to his realtive's kids when they marry), and refreshes one or two old tube amplifiers now and then with new caps, components, and adds wood sides (but if he can't add wood, then little interest). His living space is about 75 square meters. He has an old fixed base silver coloured router older than me, an equally old variable speed drill, and a newish circular saw as power tools. And add in the vacuum, bits and blades, hammer, screwdrivers, good supply supply of clamps, clamping table, and chisels. All of this fits into a closet and you can't tell the spare former bedroom was other than a hobby room (don't look at the battle scarred floor). The walls are extra thick with concrete, so all the noise only can go through his front door and the windows. I think that I am in paradise with all the space I have, but he says he wouldn't have it any other way as he says it saves him money from buying too much wood (I found out that you can buy standard wood stock in Hong Kong cut to approximate lengths and pay a small premium for JUST that much stock) and too many more tools. My aunt has her TV, radio, her couch, knitting, and her stove -- I think that she is the reason why he doesn't have more tools.
He has slowed down after seeing the kits available out there (he had bought the SEAS Idunn kit and was shocked at how good the workmaship could be for a mass produced kit). I am still waiting for a full range or a folded horn, but he said I have to come and get it because he won't ship it.
The point is, if he can do it, with a lot of dedication you can too.
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