Hi a.wayne,
Treat it as just another inexpensive meter. Don't trust any readings until you can compare it with a known good meter on each range and function. I'm not trying to be mean spirited about this. After seeing many name-brand meters that didn't meet their rather loose specifications at new, a no-name meter doesn't instill confidence.
Now, once you have checked it, go ahead and use it. You will have a good idea where the reading is in relation to the actual quantity you are measuring. Do check your meter every so often to note where the readings are drifting. That is the purpose of calibration, and the cheaper meters need it more than the expensive ones do. That's about opposite of what happens in real life. Just check the voltage ranges as that should carry to AC volts as well. Resistance can be tested with some 1% resistors.
Resist the temptation to record every digit on the display. That goes for any digital meter in fact. With the lower end meters, often the last digit in a 3 1/2 digit display means nothing if you work out the accuracy spec. That's revolting! My guess is that your new meter should be a 4 1/2 digit type. That will be more accurate (I hope) than the earlier standard 3 1/2 digit models. Often, if you open these up, you will find standard 1% resistors used in the divider. The cheap metal film resistors can have a surprisingly large temperature co-efficient. Also, I wouldn't want to trust the AC voltage measurements on anything but a sine wave around 60 Hz.
If you are looking for an "off-brand" meter, look for a brand called "Escort". Those aren't bad and you can trust their specs. Also, I do use no-name meters as well. However, they are used in applications where I only want a rough idea of the measurement, and I do check them against my good meters. The calibration is typically done on the 2 volt scale just below full scale. So, that means 1.900 volts for a range that reads up to 1.999 volts. You have to make sure the meter doesn't up-range on you some times. All the other ranges depend on the divider, so if a range is out of tolerance, you have to mess around with changing individual resistors.
Now, a real Fluke meter (years ago anyway) uses a thick film voltage divider assembly. This allows all resistors to track each other thermally, plus the resistors are low inductance and low capacitance. Add low temperature co-efficient as well to that. This means that the actual divider ratios are stable over temperature, and the frequency response is really good. Fluke also uses a good RMS converter for AC voltage conversions so you can get accurate readings on wave forms that are not sine shaped. There are other brands that do the same (like Agilent and Escort) that use the same idea. Note that something like Extech is not considered to be that reliable or stable over time.
Just out of curiosity, how much did this one cost you?
-Chris
Treat it as just another inexpensive meter. Don't trust any readings until you can compare it with a known good meter on each range and function. I'm not trying to be mean spirited about this. After seeing many name-brand meters that didn't meet their rather loose specifications at new, a no-name meter doesn't instill confidence.
Now, once you have checked it, go ahead and use it. You will have a good idea where the reading is in relation to the actual quantity you are measuring. Do check your meter every so often to note where the readings are drifting. That is the purpose of calibration, and the cheaper meters need it more than the expensive ones do. That's about opposite of what happens in real life. Just check the voltage ranges as that should carry to AC volts as well. Resistance can be tested with some 1% resistors.
Resist the temptation to record every digit on the display. That goes for any digital meter in fact. With the lower end meters, often the last digit in a 3 1/2 digit display means nothing if you work out the accuracy spec. That's revolting! My guess is that your new meter should be a 4 1/2 digit type. That will be more accurate (I hope) than the earlier standard 3 1/2 digit models. Often, if you open these up, you will find standard 1% resistors used in the divider. The cheap metal film resistors can have a surprisingly large temperature co-efficient. Also, I wouldn't want to trust the AC voltage measurements on anything but a sine wave around 60 Hz.
If you are looking for an "off-brand" meter, look for a brand called "Escort". Those aren't bad and you can trust their specs. Also, I do use no-name meters as well. However, they are used in applications where I only want a rough idea of the measurement, and I do check them against my good meters. The calibration is typically done on the 2 volt scale just below full scale. So, that means 1.900 volts for a range that reads up to 1.999 volts. You have to make sure the meter doesn't up-range on you some times. All the other ranges depend on the divider, so if a range is out of tolerance, you have to mess around with changing individual resistors.
Now, a real Fluke meter (years ago anyway) uses a thick film voltage divider assembly. This allows all resistors to track each other thermally, plus the resistors are low inductance and low capacitance. Add low temperature co-efficient as well to that. This means that the actual divider ratios are stable over temperature, and the frequency response is really good. Fluke also uses a good RMS converter for AC voltage conversions so you can get accurate readings on wave forms that are not sine shaped. There are other brands that do the same (like Agilent and Escort) that use the same idea. Note that something like Extech is not considered to be that reliable or stable over time.
Just out of curiosity, how much did this one cost you?
-Chris
I bought my Fluke used off e-bay. Kluke. Insulting. Like Roladex watches. Some may actually work but buying it is just rewarding fraud. China needs to learn to stand on their own capabilities and name. They can, so watch out. When they sell the same meter with their own real name, offer support and verification of performance, then no problem. I have several Instek instruments that seem to be fine. ( and my Simpson, tek scope, HP generators...)
Judging from the price, seems like it would be something like a model 115. I don't see any reason for automatically assuming performance issues. My main assumption is that Fluke remains concerned with reputation and liability issues.
When I was a child, it was "Made in Japan," and you all know the rest of that story.
When I was a child, it was "Made in Japan," and you all know the rest of that story.
I will assume that "Kluke" was just a typing error.
CHina is just a place. They can make things. They can make absolute junk, and they can make high precision quality stuff. And anything in between. It ain;t just a bunch of folks wearing shower clogs and wading in rice paddies. A company like FLuke doesn;t just call over there and say "Hey, make me a batch of voltmeters and stick my name on them." They can make throw away stuff, bit on the other hand, they have a space program, make high tech electronics, have a nuclear arsenal. (Willing to bet those things won;t function if deployed? I'm not)
The Chinese will make whatever the contractor - in this case Fluke - will accept as good enough. I wouldn;t expect a $140 meter to have the performance of a $1000 meter, regardless of where it was made. I wouldn;t dismiss it just because it says China on it.
If I buy a Fluke meter, I generally expect it will work to their claims, and live through their warranty. I get those $8 meters from Harbor Freight, you know, the ones that are often on sale for $2 and can usually be had for free with a coupon. I expect little from them, but they are fine for checking continuity - is this voice coil open? Basic voltage - is this wall outlet hot? This battery dead? But my basic and aging FLuke of course runs rings around those and is my main go-to tool.
Anatech suggests not trusting it at first. GOod advice. Apply that advice to ANY piece of gear you get, not just Chinese Flukes.
CHina is just a place. They can make things. They can make absolute junk, and they can make high precision quality stuff. And anything in between. It ain;t just a bunch of folks wearing shower clogs and wading in rice paddies. A company like FLuke doesn;t just call over there and say "Hey, make me a batch of voltmeters and stick my name on them." They can make throw away stuff, bit on the other hand, they have a space program, make high tech electronics, have a nuclear arsenal. (Willing to bet those things won;t function if deployed? I'm not)
The Chinese will make whatever the contractor - in this case Fluke - will accept as good enough. I wouldn;t expect a $140 meter to have the performance of a $1000 meter, regardless of where it was made. I wouldn;t dismiss it just because it says China on it.
If I buy a Fluke meter, I generally expect it will work to their claims, and live through their warranty. I get those $8 meters from Harbor Freight, you know, the ones that are often on sale for $2 and can usually be had for free with a coupon. I expect little from them, but they are fine for checking continuity - is this voice coil open? Basic voltage - is this wall outlet hot? This battery dead? But my basic and aging FLuke of course runs rings around those and is my main go-to tool.
Anatech suggests not trusting it at first. GOod advice. Apply that advice to ANY piece of gear you get, not just Chinese Flukes.
Banned
Joined 2002
with the name fluke on them, they are not suppose to be allowed into canada/usa from china, they are knock off units. Like evertying else from china..
You know what pisses me off.. many years ago now, briangt and i and a few other guys designed a very nice CRC aleph psu, guess what i found on ebay the other day of some guy in china making and selling ?
He's the same guy selling pass labs clone boards and stuff..
Hi a.wayne,
Fluke has historically had trouble with some of their lower end meters. The really bad one was a model made with a current loop. The "loop" was actually a "U" shape in the end of a projection off the front. All closed case calibration, which can be good - or bad as in the case of Extech. At any rate, the Fluke meters I was talking about failed in record numbers, plus they were "repair by replacement". Not confidence inspiring from my viewpoint as a calibration technician.
I am not saying you should bail on it though. Check for the quality of construction, feel and heft (these things matter to some extent). The feel of any rotary switch can give you a clue. What you don't want to see is a PCB with switch contacts part of the PCB. The knobs may cut through the traces in a little time. As a Fluke meter, I would expect it to be well in tolerance and for that calibration to last.
Once you are at the $140 level, the only other meter with something to offer are the ones made by Agilent (they bought Escort). The Escort brand is pretty good, and that was before the buyout. Agilent infused Escort with their technology, and Escort made reliable meters. The new Agilent meters are extremely good. I think they start at about $230 these days, but offer great features and reliability. Therefore, I can recommend Fluke or Agilent whole heatedly and without any reservations.
I bought a couple meters on our government auction site. They were HP 974A and no one seemed to know what they were. What they are is an amazingly good meter with impressive features and intelligent design. Before this, Fluke was the only good hand held I had experience with. These are extremely accurate, 4 1/2 digit and good up to 100 KHz for AC volts. The basic DC accuracy is 0.05%, which is silly good for hand held meters. After looking over the current lot, I was prepared to buy one new, but then these popped up.
So, make sure your meter is solid with smooth switches or controls. I'm not too concerned about it holding it's accuracy, or being within tolerance. It would still be a good idea to check it against a better meter. Something in a bench meter like an HP/Agilent, Fluke, Kiethly or an in tolerance multi-function calibrator. Just thinking, did that meter come with a certification sticker on it? It should indicate the next calibration date on it. Sometimes you may even receive a calibration certificate with the meter.
Everyone needs at least one really good meter on the bench. You can transfer the accuracy of that one through the other less reliable meters you may have kicking around. Also keep in mind that when yo have a "low batt" indication, the accuracy does suffer. Keep on top of that if you need accurate numbers.
-Chris
Oh, it's an actual Fluke then? Cool. I would expect a higher level of accuracy and function if it was priced as you say it was. I do believe you, just being cautious.
Fluke has historically had trouble with some of their lower end meters. The really bad one was a model made with a current loop. The "loop" was actually a "U" shape in the end of a projection off the front. All closed case calibration, which can be good - or bad as in the case of Extech. At any rate, the Fluke meters I was talking about failed in record numbers, plus they were "repair by replacement". Not confidence inspiring from my viewpoint as a calibration technician.
I am not saying you should bail on it though. Check for the quality of construction, feel and heft (these things matter to some extent). The feel of any rotary switch can give you a clue. What you don't want to see is a PCB with switch contacts part of the PCB. The knobs may cut through the traces in a little time. As a Fluke meter, I would expect it to be well in tolerance and for that calibration to last.
Once you are at the $140 level, the only other meter with something to offer are the ones made by Agilent (they bought Escort). The Escort brand is pretty good, and that was before the buyout. Agilent infused Escort with their technology, and Escort made reliable meters. The new Agilent meters are extremely good. I think they start at about $230 these days, but offer great features and reliability. Therefore, I can recommend Fluke or Agilent whole heatedly and without any reservations.
I bought a couple meters on our government auction site. They were HP 974A and no one seemed to know what they were. What they are is an amazingly good meter with impressive features and intelligent design. Before this, Fluke was the only good hand held I had experience with. These are extremely accurate, 4 1/2 digit and good up to 100 KHz for AC volts. The basic DC accuracy is 0.05%, which is silly good for hand held meters. After looking over the current lot, I was prepared to buy one new, but then these popped up.
So, make sure your meter is solid with smooth switches or controls. I'm not too concerned about it holding it's accuracy, or being within tolerance. It would still be a good idea to check it against a better meter. Something in a bench meter like an HP/Agilent, Fluke, Kiethly or an in tolerance multi-function calibrator. Just thinking, did that meter come with a certification sticker on it? It should indicate the next calibration date on it. Sometimes you may even receive a calibration certificate with the meter.
Everyone needs at least one really good meter on the bench. You can transfer the accuracy of that one through the other less reliable meters you may have kicking around. Also keep in mind that when yo have a "low batt" indication, the accuracy does suffer. Keep on top of that if you need accurate numbers.
-Chris
China is only a few years behind what happened in Japan, and now Korea. What they have not learned yet is that even in capitalism, there are rules. They have not learned yet about quality, misrepresentation and down right fraud. They will. We need to help then not steal brands, cut milk with poison, relabel chips, fake drugs, or make identical Apple stores selling fake iPads. They will learn. Heck, my last couple of cheap e-pay pieces even came in with honest and correct customs markings. That is a change for sure.
Banned
Joined 2002
most stuff you buy off hong kong / china that is in the audio industry is either ripped off patents ideas. MOST of it is cheap CRAP JUNK..
take rca jacks for example, you get 6 for 5$ when you get them they really feel like they are $.00001 each.
China . hong kong has also clued into marking things up for shipping hey look these 20 resistors are only 1.99$ ( crap ones ) then 34.99$ for shipping.. WTF..
Every so often Harbor Freight or Parts Express has a sale on DMMs. Right now PE has some for $2 each. Yes two bucks. I bought five of these cheap DMMs and I already had two and they work well. They are not auto ranging but they agree to within 1% to my Fluk and Tektronix meters
What to do with seven cheap meters? I build with Vacuum tubes and hate to stick my hands into a chassis that has 350 or 550 volts DC inside. So I can connect one meter to the power supply and another the plate of a tube and so on when the amplifier is unplugged then turn it on and get quite a bit of data all at once. I also keep one of these meter permanently hooked up to my variable high voltage power supply. I have another hooked up full time to my Variac transformer.
You need at least one good meter but there are many uses for cheap ones too.
I never buy the rip-offs that use some name brand fraudulently.
What to do with seven cheap meters? I build with Vacuum tubes and hate to stick my hands into a chassis that has 350 or 550 volts DC inside. So I can connect one meter to the power supply and another the plate of a tube and so on when the amplifier is unplugged then turn it on and get quite a bit of data all at once. I also keep one of these meter permanently hooked up to my variable high voltage power supply. I have another hooked up full time to my Variac transformer.
You need at least one good meter but there are many uses for cheap ones too.
I never buy the rip-offs that use some name brand fraudulently.
Banned
Joined 2002
That's the issue thi, in-educated people keep buying their garbage knock-offs and they keep making them
Last year at work I asked for and got a Tektronix DPO-3054 scope. It was delivered by the Tek rep. It's made in China and it's not a knock off.
G²
There is a difference between "stealing ideas" as the late Mr. Gates was known to do, and selling a fake, bad quality, or dangerous product. I have been the victim of fake marked components, fake network products, and I know of fraudulent bolts that cost lives. I have no doubt the same plant also made the top quality parts. Microsoft may make us mad occasionally, but they don't commit fraud. They also spend billions on original research and support their products. We are asking to see the same from Asia. Make the investment and stand up for it. Don't just commit low level fraud. It will take longer for the rest of the world to take the truly good products you develop seriously. It is good business to do ... good business. We learned that in the West in the 19th and early 20th century. It was painful. Learn from our mistakes. I would suggest the gentleman in HK read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair and then see what our reaction to the situation was, how we learned, and how we fixed the problems. Capitalism works only with a few socialistic rules.
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