I'm beginning to realize that w/o measurements audio DIY is a hit/miss deal. no point in spending high bucks on boutique parts if something is oscillating and you're not even aware of it.
so... I'm looking at buying some cheap scope for audio-related work. I'm assuming that I can't ask much of it apart from telling if something is oscillating, rough noise measurements or the like. e.g. knowing if the super regulator I've just built is any better than a 7805 if you know what I mean
I don't trust used as that would mean buying from abroad, sounds like really asking for it.
I found some analog Atten (made in China) units that sell for less than EUR 300 new and advertise 5mV/div sensitivity. having used some really entry level digital Tek's at work I'm aware that the calibration is not to be ignored. these Atten scopes being chinese, I don't know what to expect.
I realize that a no compromise scope costs the price of a car (a very good one even) and I know I shouldn't be expecting wonders for less than 300 euros but thought I'd ask. really, I'm not expecting to do jitter measurements with it
would such a thing be of any use in this context? what would you do if you were me?
so... I'm looking at buying some cheap scope for audio-related work. I'm assuming that I can't ask much of it apart from telling if something is oscillating, rough noise measurements or the like. e.g. knowing if the super regulator I've just built is any better than a 7805 if you know what I mean
I don't trust used as that would mean buying from abroad, sounds like really asking for it.
I found some analog Atten (made in China) units that sell for less than EUR 300 new and advertise 5mV/div sensitivity. having used some really entry level digital Tek's at work I'm aware that the calibration is not to be ignored. these Atten scopes being chinese, I don't know what to expect.
I realize that a no compromise scope costs the price of a car (a very good one even) and I know I shouldn't be expecting wonders for less than 300 euros but thought I'd ask. really, I'm not expecting to do jitter measurements with it
would such a thing be of any use in this context? what would you do if you were me?
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I'd look for a used analog Tek scope on eBay from a used equipment broker located somewhere in the EU (keeping shipping and duty reasonable) - someone with a very good feedback rating with well spelled out warranty policies.
IMHO A well cared for used Tek scope is going to be a better and more reliable tool in most instances than a no name scope from China.
I picked up a very good used 2245 on eBay a few years ago for $300, worth every penny I paid for it. (And it was definitely a good deal)
IMHO A well cared for used Tek scope is going to be a better and more reliable tool in most instances than a no name scope from China.
I picked up a very good used 2245 on eBay a few years ago for $300, worth every penny I paid for it. (And it was definitely a good deal)
You can also look for Hameg, Philips, Trio and some others.
A dual trace 20MHz will do for almost everything.
Hello,
If you think to really use this instruments and buy it as an investment,
i can recommend you the RIGOL DG1052.
Probably the best value for money you could find.
Of course as say Pieter T, you can also find good analog scope on Ebay at very low price. The choice depend on what you really want to do do with, and the money you can spend for !
Regards.
Frex.
If you think to really use this instruments and buy it as an investment,
i can recommend you the RIGOL DG1052.
Probably the best value for money you could find.
Of course as say Pieter T, you can also find good analog scope on Ebay at very low price. The choice depend on what you really want to do do with, and the money you can spend for !
Regards.
Frex.
A scope is definitely useful for audio. I would say that reliability is more important than an impressive spec. 10-20MHz bandwidth, two traces, and stable triggering are enough to get you started. Make sure you get some 10:1 (preferably switchable) probes too, as some audio circuits won't like the capacitive load of a standard probe cable.
I've got a 20 mhz B&K 2120. Hitachi scope from the same era seem equivalent. My disco mixert was oscillating at 1 mhz, and the only symptom was the fan was running really fast on the power amp and the sound was slightly strange. Not I.M, not H.M. For calibration I use the power line, and zener diodes. It does seem to be stable on gain and the pots are okay.Sync is pretty good. Cost, $40, I could test it with a transistor radio before purchase. Separation of signal ground from power line neutral is important , and a good feature of the B&K that PC "scopes" do not have. No digital power supplies inside to create noise, either.
I found a TEK 2235 on Ebay recently, good at $200. I also have a a recent 20 MHZ Taiwanese and a 16 bit Picoscope even, But I found that oscillation on Mosfet amps couldn't be seen on them. The clear 100 MHz bandwidth is an asset for observing and locating VHF oscillation above the typical 20 MHz CRO limit. Buying a new instrument, even a cheap digital might be a waste of money but like kevinkr suggests, a working analog TEK from a reputable dealer is a great asset.
Get an HP, TEK, Philips, or other brand name scope with 20~100 MHz bandwidth along with at least two probes for it. Don't bother with the el-cheapo or PC scopes (in my opinion).
If you need model numbers, run a forum search. There are plenty of threads that list which scopes are worth having and reasonably priced.
I wouldn't part with the TEK 2215 60 MHz scope I picked up used in the early 90'ies. Nor would I part with the 2245B 400 MHz one that I dug out of a surplus pile and repaired... Scopes are good tools and helpful when used properly.
~Tom
If you need model numbers, run a forum search. There are plenty of threads that list which scopes are worth having and reasonably priced.
I wouldn't part with the TEK 2215 60 MHz scope I picked up used in the early 90'ies. Nor would I part with the 2245B 400 MHz one that I dug out of a surplus pile and repaired... Scopes are good tools and helpful when used properly.
~Tom
Hooked the second one (pm3211) up today and fiddled around with the knobs a bit.
Seems they both still work good...
Now to decide which in is the better one.... hmm maybe I'll have to buy both of them, just to be sure huh?
Any comments?
Is there a thread with a step by step explanation how to measure t/s parameters by means of a scope?
Looking forward to test some drivers that are laying around... (when time permits)
Seems they both still work good...
Now to decide which in is the better one.... hmm maybe I'll have to buy both of them, just to be sure huh?
Any comments?
Is there a thread with a step by step explanation how to measure t/s parameters by means of a scope?
Looking forward to test some drivers that are laying around... (when time permits)
I have this exact scope. Paid $349 shipped on ebay. The rebranded Agilent scopes built by Rigol cost substantially more stateside. I'm sometimes nervous with insanely underpriced Chinese goods, but it's really a lovely piece of gear, and a steal for the price. Feels nice to use.
If $350 is doable, just get the modern digital scope. It's incredibly small and convenient, with lots of useful functions for audio work.
I'm haveing a hard time chooseing a scope from the suppliers around me, I live on a fixed income, so haveing a large supplier and real warranty made my list quite short.
The only reason I can actualy choose a scope is because someone else is buying it for me as payment for an electronic project I built for him... learned everything I needed to (that is important, here).
Currently the choices are between a 20mHz Owon digital with nice USB outputs and primarily positive user feedback, and an Isotech 20mHz analog without even a serial output, it is slightly cheaper than the digital though.
Would the analog be that much better than the digital to make living without captureing abilities worth it?
Also I would like to use the scope to measure some mains voltage LED drivers I put together, and surprisingly enough seem to work close enough to what the datasheet specs, but I'd like to finetune it a bit. The it would operate somewhere between 70 and 100kHz at most, but the outputs are not referenced to ground, and the highest potential is actualy at 373V, and the cathode is about 45V lower... useing a constant current driver.
I was informed one needs some special arrangement for the sake of safety to work at these voltages.
The only reason I can actualy choose a scope is because someone else is buying it for me as payment for an electronic project I built for him... learned everything I needed to (that is important, here).
Currently the choices are between a 20mHz Owon digital with nice USB outputs and primarily positive user feedback, and an Isotech 20mHz analog without even a serial output, it is slightly cheaper than the digital though.
Would the analog be that much better than the digital to make living without captureing abilities worth it?
Also I would like to use the scope to measure some mains voltage LED drivers I put together, and surprisingly enough seem to work close enough to what the datasheet specs, but I'd like to finetune it a bit. The it would operate somewhere between 70 and 100kHz at most, but the outputs are not referenced to ground, and the highest potential is actualy at 373V, and the cathode is about 45V lower... useing a constant current driver.
I was informed one needs some special arrangement for the sake of safety to work at these voltages.
the pm3208 is 20Mhz
pm3211 15Mhz
I'm only going to use it for audio/speakers. Is there any point in getting the higher bandwidth one for this?
__________________
Bart
It is allways better to get the highest bandwidth within what you can afford.
Especialy in audio for when analyzing square waves and looking for distortions.
My Hitachi V-425 40mhz scope has been serving me very well since 1985.
I Originaly got it to do T.V repair work and to look at digital signals of CPU control circuits that are associated with audio and video equipment.
Not much has changed in that area even today.
Except for the advent of digital T.V. jer
pm3211 15Mhz
I'm only going to use it for audio/speakers. Is there any point in getting the higher bandwidth one for this?
__________________
Bart
It is allways better to get the highest bandwidth within what you can afford.
Especialy in audio for when analyzing square waves and looking for distortions.
My Hitachi V-425 40mhz scope has been serving me very well since 1985.
I Originaly got it to do T.V repair work and to look at digital signals of CPU control circuits that are associated with audio and video equipment.
Not much has changed in that area even today.
Except for the advent of digital T.V. jer
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