Hello Everybody,
I have done a lot of reading the last several weeks on this site and a lot of searching on Google for sites that teach how to trace circuits to find what is wrong. I haven't been too lucky and I am getting frustrated. Feels like I am going around in circles.
I need instruction from the beginning that can teach me. I want to learn. Video would be best as I am a kinetic learner (Learn best thrown into a problem, hands on vs reading about it). Of course I know there will be reading, but endless pure text is harder for me.
I welcome all ideas on where to get my education (free sites are best but if there is one you feel strongly about that is very effective, please do)! Thanks!
Regards//Keith
I have done a lot of reading the last several weeks on this site and a lot of searching on Google for sites that teach how to trace circuits to find what is wrong. I haven't been too lucky and I am getting frustrated. Feels like I am going around in circles.
I need instruction from the beginning that can teach me. I want to learn. Video would be best as I am a kinetic learner (Learn best thrown into a problem, hands on vs reading about it). Of course I know there will be reading, but endless pure text is harder for me.I welcome all ideas on where to get my education (free sites are best but if there is one you feel strongly about that is very effective, please do)! Thanks!
Regards//Keith
Hello KP11520,
There are many different bits of knowledge that come into play when diagnosing, analyzing, and repairing electronic devices, and experience is key.
Sounds like what you'll have to do is start by either narrowing your approach to a specific device (for example, VCRs), or, by generalizing your approach to learning principles of electronics.
There are books on topics such as TV repair, amplifier design, etcetera. Many of the things learned from one of these books can be applied in general to working on other devices.
Really, the best beginning is a study of basic electronics. There are tons of good books. And for hands-on, get a breadboard and build some circuits! You need to be able to correlate between schematic diagrams and the actual components on a board. Measure some voltages. See if they measure what they are supposed to be. Play with the circuits and experiment.
Hope this helps!
There are many different bits of knowledge that come into play when diagnosing, analyzing, and repairing electronic devices, and experience is key.
Sounds like what you'll have to do is start by either narrowing your approach to a specific device (for example, VCRs), or, by generalizing your approach to learning principles of electronics.
There are books on topics such as TV repair, amplifier design, etcetera. Many of the things learned from one of these books can be applied in general to working on other devices.
Really, the best beginning is a study of basic electronics. There are tons of good books. And for hands-on, get a breadboard and build some circuits! You need to be able to correlate between schematic diagrams and the actual components on a board. Measure some voltages. See if they measure what they are supposed to be. Play with the circuits and experiment.
Hope this helps!
Hey again, this might not be exactly what you're looking for, but there's a few troubleshooting practice circuits here:
science-ebooks
science-ebooks
Hey adrome00,
Thank you for the link. It looks like it will be very helpful. (And Lord knows I need the help! LOL)
Thanks for responding, I was starting to think real beginners don't stand a chance here! There are recommended books on this site but text books aren't always everyone's preferred method of learning. I have to mix some visual and animation for me to get really involved with the subject matter and when I have that I will learn it better and faster than most. But when my eyes pass endless lines of text, I find myself somewhere else not related to what I am learning and I have to go back and reread from where ever I jumped off.
Regards//Keith
Thank you for the link. It looks like it will be very helpful. (And Lord knows I need the help! LOL)
Thanks for responding, I was starting to think real beginners don't stand a chance here! There are recommended books on this site but text books aren't always everyone's preferred method of learning. I have to mix some visual and animation for me to get really involved with the subject matter and when I have that I will learn it better and faster than most. But when my eyes pass endless lines of text, I find myself somewhere else not related to what I am learning and I have to go back and reread from where ever I jumped off.
Regards//Keith
Hey Keith,
I hear what you're saying about your method of learning. I'm definitely all for learning things in your own way.
What do you think of this suggestion: Take an appropriate general electronics book, then
1. Read and really try to grasp, say, just one or two paragraphs. Like a 30 second reading stint or something.
2. Do something related, such as study a circuit board, build a small circuit, measure some voltages, take something apart, etc.....
3. Repeat 1 & 2 later - whenever.....
Just try to pick up a bit at a time?
I hear what you're saying about your method of learning. I'm definitely all for learning things in your own way.
What do you think of this suggestion: Take an appropriate general electronics book, then
1. Read and really try to grasp, say, just one or two paragraphs. Like a 30 second reading stint or something.
2. Do something related, such as study a circuit board, build a small circuit, measure some voltages, take something apart, etc.....
3. Repeat 1 & 2 later - whenever.....
Just try to pick up a bit at a time?
Thanks Nordic and adrome00!
It looks like there aren't to many videos out there (for free anyway). So there are some with pictures and diagrams and sometimes a little more (very helpful). But it looks like just plain reading (the old fashioned way) rules.
Here is a web-site that starts at the beginning that might be helpful for some of you (like me) other beginners: http://www.electronicstheory.com/html/e101-10.htm
I hope this is useful!
Regards//Keith
It looks like there aren't to many videos out there (for free anyway). So there are some with pictures and diagrams and sometimes a little more (very helpful). But it looks like just plain reading (the old fashioned way) rules.
Here is a web-site that starts at the beginning that might be helpful for some of you (like me)
other beginners: http://www.electronicstheory.com/html/e101-10.htmI hope this is useful!
Regards//Keith
KP11520 said:Hello Everybody,
I have done a lot of reading the last several weeks on this site and a lot of searching on Google for sites that teach how to trace circuits to find what is wrong. I haven't been too lucky and I am getting frustrated. Feels like I am going around in circles.
I welcome all ideas on where to get my education (free sites are best but if there is one you feel strongly about that is very effective, please do)! Thanks!
Regards//Keith
Keith,
Here is one REALLY-good site:
http://www.repairfaq.org/
Here's the intro paragraph from that webpage:
------------
Welcome to the Sci.Electronics.Repair Frequently Asked Question(s) (or S.E.R FAQ for short) Home Page. This site features Samuel M. Goldwasser's latest and greatest "Notes on the Troubleshooting and Repair of..." series of comprehensive repair guides for consumer electronics equipment and other household devices. There is also a great deal of other information of interest to the electronics hobbyist, experimenter, technician, engineer, and possibly even the dentist and poet. Included are the now quite comprehensive and massive "Sam's Laser FAQ", many new schematics, and links to over 1,000 technology related sites. In addition, there are a variety of documents from other sources on electronics troubleshooting, repair, and other related topics.
-------------
Sam Goldwasser is a great guy.
You could also browse the searchable 1981-to-present Usenet newsgroups' message-traffic archive (It's a goldmine, for lots of types of information!), especially the sci.electronics.repair group.
The Usenet archive is now at http://groups.google.com .
Good luck!
- Tom Gootee
http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/index.html
-
Thanks Tom, Just added to Favorites in IE!
Two weeks ago I sent my CDP to Rotel because I had no idea how to diagnose a bad DAC. It is a SAA7323GP and from what I understand not easy to de-solder and then solder in the new one. The pins are very delicate. But it would have been nice to know what it was BEFORE I sent it. Maybe now after a couple of months of studying I will get that knowledge.
Two weeks ago I sent my CDP to Rotel because I had no idea how to diagnose a bad DAC. It is a SAA7323GP and from what I understand not easy to de-solder and then solder in the new one. The pins are very delicate. But it would have been nice to know what it was BEFORE I sent it. Maybe now after a couple of months of studying I will get that knowledge.
Surplus and hamfests aren't what they used to be, but now we have eBay. A lot of us learned troubleshooting by buying various pieces of ailing test equipment, and fixing the stuff. The older Tektronix, Hewlett Packard, General Radio, Fluke and Keithley (and other) equipment is well made and the manuals go deeply into theory and troubleshooting. By fixing up old stuff, you get the equipment you need to do anything else, you get an idea of what failures are common and uncommon, and you get to absorb circuitry and design practices from the best designers of the time. If you can find any of the writings by Jim Williams of Linear Technology (in EDN magazine), he used to talk quite a bit about the benefits of fixing up the old stuff. IMO, the best way to learn to troubleshoot is to do it, and it can't be learned just by reading. It's also good practice to avoid changing parts unless you can prove they are bad- the fun is in making various tests and thinking about the matter until you can say how such-and-such a failure would cause the observed symptoms, and go right to the cause of the problem. It also helps if you can find a mentor and watch them troubleshoot, or work someplace as a technician for a while.
Hey Conrad,
Thanks for validating the "doing" vs. just the reading to concretize learning. Recently in one of my other threads you suggeted that I invest in a scope. I do intend on doing that as soon as I get a little further. Right now would be like playing that Milton Bradley game "Operation" with the probes hitting everything they weren't supposed to, buzzing and shorting out circuits all over the place. Or as we said when we were kids playing the game, "You Lose!"
Regards//Keith
PS I can't wait to get "There".
Thanks for validating the "doing" vs. just the reading to concretize learning. Recently in one of my other threads you suggeted that I invest in a scope. I do intend on doing that as soon as I get a little further. Right now would be like playing that Milton Bradley game "Operation" with the probes hitting everything they weren't supposed to, buzzing and shorting out circuits all over the place. Or as we said when we were kids playing the game, "You Lose!"
Regards//Keith
PS I can't wait to get "There".
In case any other Newbies are looking for instructional web-sites, I also found this one. It is very good for beginners and it has videos and advice on how to get setup. Enjoy!
Regards//Keith
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/new-diyer.html
Regards//Keith
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/new-diyer.html
Troubleshooting
I find that 98% of repairs do not involve circuit tracing. If you are that far involved, you may already be past the point of just binning the thing.
When I do repairs, almost daily, half are nailed just by visual inspection and maybe a couple quick multimeter checks. That is, of the half that are really broken. A very large number of units brought in for repair have what we call an ID-10-T error. (put the right letters in for the numbers)
Yes, user error.
But of the truly faulty ones a sharp eye and a check with a meter that power is getting through nails 50%. The next 25% usually have blown parts that can be found with DMM checks. The next 20% actually need a bit of talent and maybe a scope to fix. The 5% are the SOBs that require all your skills and knowledge and which take over 50% of your repair time.
To do all of them, the first thing is a good grounding in the basics of electronics. You learn a lot if you go and build something from scratch (not from a kit).
Dan
I find that 98% of repairs do not involve circuit tracing. If you are that far involved, you may already be past the point of just binning the thing.
When I do repairs, almost daily, half are nailed just by visual inspection and maybe a couple quick multimeter checks. That is, of the half that are really broken. A very large number of units brought in for repair have what we call an ID-10-T error. (put the right letters in for the numbers)
Yes, user error.
But of the truly faulty ones a sharp eye and a check with a meter that power is getting through nails 50%. The next 25% usually have blown parts that can be found with DMM checks. The next 20% actually need a bit of talent and maybe a scope to fix. The 5% are the SOBs that require all your skills and knowledge and which take over 50% of your repair time.
To do all of them, the first thing is a good grounding in the basics of electronics. You learn a lot if you go and build something from scratch (not from a kit).
Dan
FEEE
www.vias.org
Fundamentals of Electrical Engineering and Electronics
simple and easy to understand and very nicely written.
Enjoy
Gajanan phadte
www.vias.org
Fundamentals of Electrical Engineering and Electronics
simple and easy to understand and very nicely written.
Enjoy
Gajanan phadte
Hi,
Thanks Dan and Gajanan!
Dan, in my case the DAC was bad and i don't have a scope. If I did, it would be a cool conversation piece until I get more experience and understand how to use it! The DAC is a delicate one for a beginner to change out!
Your logic is true and will be useful in my future and is now incorporated into my education, unfortunately mine was on the wrong end of that logic ladder. Thanks!
Gajanan, nice site. It is now added to my favorites too! Thanks!
Regards//Keith
Thanks Dan and Gajanan!
Dan, in my case the DAC was bad and i don't have a scope. If I did, it would be a cool conversation piece until I get more experience and understand how to use it! The DAC is a delicate one for a beginner to change out!
Your logic is true and will be useful in my future and is now incorporated into my education, unfortunately mine was on the wrong end of that logic ladder. Thanks!
Gajanan, nice site. It is now added to my favorites too! Thanks!
Regards//Keith
" ... the best way to learn to troubleshoot is to do it ..." 
" ... the DAC was bad and i don't have a scope ..."
" ... You learn a lot if you go and build something from scratch ..."
" ... A lot of us learned troubleshooting by buying various pieces of ailing test equipment, and fixing the stuff. ..."
The common thread here is: you are just going to have to put your front feet up on the bench top and grab a voltmeter and debugg that surplus 'scope / meter / calibrator / amp /pre-amp / radio / TV / computer / wristwatch ... or what have you and rare back and fix it.
" ... the DAC was bad and i don't have a scope ..."
" ... You learn a lot if you go and build something from scratch ..."
" ... A lot of us learned troubleshooting by buying various pieces of ailing test equipment, and fixing the stuff. ..."
The common thread here is: you are just going to have to put your front feet up on the bench top and grab a voltmeter and debugg that surplus 'scope / meter / calibrator / amp /pre-amp / radio / TV / computer / wristwatch ... or what have you and rare back and fix it.
FastEddy said:The common thread here is: you are just going to have to put your front feet up on the bench top and grab a voltmeter and debugg that surplus 'scope / meter / calibrator / amp /pre-amp / radio / TV / computer / wristwatch ... or what have you and rare back and fix it.
Or NOT..... I could destroy it and I don't want to do that with my CD Player. I am however, looking around the house for things I don't care if I destroy and may even resort to having a picnic with other peoples garbage (garbage nights here are Sunday and Wednesday night and it is all at the curb, what a treat)!!!
Eddy, you will be proud, my front feet are already up on the bench AND I have grown opposing thumbs (this will be handy with tweezers, etc.).
My next project is to buy a broken scope and fix it. I can get some old Teks that there are no parts for anymore real cheap! The only problem is I don't have a scope to diagnose my useless scope and don't know how to use it anyway! OK enough of the fun.
You are right, I need to "Just do it" but not with my CD player. I have a Hafler DH500 and a NAD 1020 that might be good victims. But just two months ago I started this all, curious about seeing if I could fix my CD player and I am getting there after no experience. I keep hearing patience is good! Wait a minute, why do you call yourself FastEddy anyway?
All kidding aside, I wish the process went faster, I am looking forward to really having some ability and talent.
Thanks for the encouragement and that "Size ?" kick in the butt!
Regards//Keith
" ... I can get some old Teks that there are no parts for anymore real cheap! ..."
I got some parts for 'em ... type RM 33 (w/ dual trace module) and a type 545 (w/ quad trace module) ... I also was able to get manuals via google search / military service schools ... Both worked last I checked, but I'll probably junk 'em for the tubes.
I got some parts for 'em ... type RM 33 (w/ dual trace module) and a type 545 (w/ quad trace module) ... I also was able to get manuals via google search / military service schools ... Both worked last I checked, but I'll probably junk 'em for the tubes.
The book used in many colleges as a basic/required textbook is "The Art of Electronics".
Read about at tangent's site :
http://tangentsoft.net/elec/reviews/aoe2.html
=FB=
Read about at tangent's site :
http://tangentsoft.net/elec/reviews/aoe2.html
=FB=
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