LCD panels

[zardoz]

sorry for the double post folks... thought it truncated the address on me

zardoz

[planet10]

Thank you for bringing me to my 1st visit to video...

A quick scan of the posts in the last 6 pages of this thread shows that you have some useful information to bring to the party. But it also shows that some of what you are saying is based on out of date information (3 years in this business is an eternity -- if it was a 3 year old Windows PC it would be a doorstop).

And your posts definitely can take on a very negative tone which is not in the spirit of diy. We are here to push the envelope. I have every confidence that it is possible to hack something together, and i know for sure that tomorrow there will be a new bit that will make it easier. And the day after that you will be able to buy it off the shelf.

So i ask you please contribute in a positive manner, never say never.

If i continue to get reports that you are not helping push forward, that you are disrupting the creative flow, i will have no option but to SinBin you. Consider this a formal warning.

That doesn't mean you can't point out potential dead-ends or problems, just do it positively.

dave
(moderator hat on)

[zardoz]

I just saw the plumbing on your page. Kudos! It looks a lot like the stand I built to keep my PC off the floor.(helps keep the dog hair out..I have 2 bullmastiffs) Gives me some ideas for when I get my home theatre going.....off to the hardware store I go....I think my wife will understand.......yeah right! LOL

zardoz

[Lifter]

Originally posted by planet10
Thank you for bringing me to my 1st visit to video...

A quick scan of the posts in the last 6 pages of this thread shows that you have some useful information to bring to the party. But it also shows that some of what you are saying is based on out of date information (3 years in this business is an eternity -- if it was a 3 year old Windows PC it would be a doorstop).

And your posts definitely can take on a very negative tone which is not in the spirit of diy. We are here to push the envelope. I have every confidence that it is possible to hack something together, and i know for sure that tomorrow there will be a new bit that will make it easier. And the day after that you will be able to buy it off the shelf.

So i ask you please contribute in a positive manner, never say never.

If i continue to get reports that you are not helping push forward, that you are disrupting the creative flow, i will have no option but to SinBin you. Consider this a formal warning.

That doesn't mean you can't point out potential dead-ends or problems, just do it positively.

dave
(moderator hat on)

I apologize for contributing to a problem in this forum. I write a lot in sports forums so I'm used to a less-sensitve/less-friendly atmosphere (w/o people taking anything personally). Some of my posts had a negative tone to them which may have deterred people from participating in here. For that, I apologize to the moderators and those who weren't involved but had to read this stuff. I felt like I was being completely ignored at first because my posts were quite long and that certain people didn't bother to read them. All I was doing was pointing out potential dead-ends and problems, and people saw that as being negative. While my tone may sometimes be negative, my feelings towards DIY projectors is not. I have always believed that there are solutions to everything. I just pointed out what I believed to be mistakes too harshly. Two people on here who overreacted (one simply because I suggeted he not buy something) now have a serious vendetta against me and I was unable to comment on anything (negative or positive) without being ignored or attacked. The other person is a very frequent poster in this thread, so I chose to stop posting in in this one for a while until he claimed he had kicked me out of it- which I didn't appreciate one bit. Again, I apologize to the moderators and from now on I will just suck it up and stop feeling like I have to defend myself against these particular individuals. I will also refrain from pointing out mistakes, etc. because it's not worth it to me and will only lead to more problems for everyone else.

[planet10]

Originally posted by zardoz
I just saw the plumbing on your page. .... Gives me some ideas for when I get my home theatre going.....off to the hardware store I go....I think my wife will understand.......yeah right! LOL

Don't mean to threadjack, but the SOs really seem to like these "pipes".



dave

[remp]

I want to clear something up.

Lifter said I was feeding people false information. I have never knowingly ever feed people false information and I will not have anyone say I do.

Here are his exact words.

Well I hate to interupt with something "negative" (I know how sensitive you are), but you shouldn't be feeding people false information. I just read the article and it says Dell selected LVDS as the standard for their LAPTOP panels

Lifter says the article refers to Dell selecting LVDS for its LAPTOP panels.

*****************************************

He is wrong. The article refers to MONITOR panels. The words LAPTOP panels are not used in the article at all,.as you can see for yourself.

Here is the relevant part of the article

Cheng Chun-ping, Taipei; Shih-wei Kao, DigiTimes.com [Monday 9 December 2002]
Dell Computer reportedly has selected low voltage differential signaling (LVDS) as its standard interface for 15-inch LCD monitor panels and sent documents specifying the related requirements to its monitor producers, according to Taiwanese IC design companies.
The Standard Panel Work Group (SPWG), which consists of Dell, Hewlett-Packard (HP), IBM and Toshiba, reportedly will also choose LVDS as its standard interface for 15-inch LCD monitor panels early next year.

In my book a monitor panel is something you put on your desk. A laptop panel is something that goes on a laptop. Two completely different items.

You see Lifter, we have had to waste 2 pages of posts, get a moderator here to sort things out simply because you cannot read a simple article properly.

If you are a man you can apologise to me for saying I feed people false information. If you are a boy, well in that case I dont care

[Lifter]

I'm totally just trying to be nice about this. I never meant you were feeding false information on purpose. Yes, they used the word monitor, but they meant laptop monitor, not desktop. That's all I was trying to say. A westerner would probably not word it like that, but it was written in Asia and maybe laptop screens are commonly called montiors there. And they call them monitor panels, not monitors. Look at the context it's used. They're talking about 15", which is the newest, largest, and most common for laptop panels. Desktop LCD's come in much larger sizes. But here's the main reason why it's laptop.

"As a result, the LVDS interface probably will soon become the mainstream interface for 15-inch LCD monitor panels, replacing the older transistor-transistor logic (TTI) interface"

It says they're replacing TTL. TTL is not used in desktop monitors (at least not to connect the panel to the PC). They're talking about internal systems. That means laptops, and possibly the internals of a desktop panel (although they wouldn't do that since it would be pointless to use LVDS for the internal transmission and DVI for the external). It doesn't say anything about replacing DVI.

[remp]

Lifter

Thank you for your reply. I am not trying to pin you into a corner for the sake of it.

Its just that you used the word LAPTOP panels whereas those words do not appear anywhere in the article at all. You applied your own interpretation onto the article and assume they are speaking about LAPTOP Panels. Further on down the article they do use the word NOTEBOOKS which has a definite meaning so I believe if they wanted to say these panels as used in LAPTOPS they would have done so.

Reading further down the article we see this

To minimize the effect of EMI (electro-magnetic interference), the LVDS interface has been widely adopted for notebooks and 17-inch and larger LCD monitors.

Here they do use the words LCD monitors explicitly.

One could reasonably come to the conclusion that if LVDS has been...... widely adopted for 17 inch and larger LCD MONITORS......., as they say, all they are doing is extending this technology to the 15 inch units.

17 inch and larger LCD screens are becoming affordable so it looks like there will be some monitors with DVI connections and some monitors with LVDS connections.

Thats not a standard is it. Thats two different technologies.

Hence my comments regarding the "DVI standard may not be so standard".

Not everyone likes the DVI standard according to what I have read. It is a pig of a connector. Hard to make, expensive and the Asians who make most of the LCD units don't like it.. The originators have tried to make it an all in one connector that serves both digital and analogue. Why they did not simply use a Digital outlet plus a standard analogue output beats me. Then customers could just plug into the appropriate hole whereas now you have to get the right cable. Always a source of error and frustration. Also if you own an analogue monitor and wish to plug into a DVI capable video card with a DVI connector you will have to throw away your standard analogue cable and go and buy one of these multipurpose DVI cables.

In my Proview 15 inch CRT monitor the analogue cable has a standard analogue plug on one end that goes into the computer, but the other end that goes into the monitor is not a connector at all. It is fixed. So what do people do if they want to upgrade to a late model video card which only has a DVI outlet.. Have to buy some sort of analogue to DVI adaptor. I bet that wont be cheap. Or throw away the monitor and get another one. Stupid idea.

My take is LVDS is the stronger technology , has a well established base, and will be widely used in laptops, and in desktop monitors.

[Lifter]

You could be right, but I still think I interpreted correctly. I don't think the article is clear enough to assume either of us are 100% right, but I think they would have mentioned something about LVDS replacing DVI if your interpreted correctly. I did a search on the topic and I couldn't find anything in English on it. There does seem to be a few internal LVDS standards (like the 20-pin one) but personally, I'm not familiar with any external LVDS standard. External LVDS kits exist, but they are all different from one another. Take the one I bought years ago for example:

http://www.tridentdisplays.co.uk/sol...its/kits.shtml
[see the pic on the bottom right of the page- notice the extra connectors on the ends of the cable. Those are an LVDS transmitter and reciever- converting to and from 44-pin TTL connectors]

As you know, there are other LVDS external "kits" that have different connectors and different pinous. So if there is now one single LVDS standard for external applications, where can we find info on it?

I also still think that the industry in the West (perhaps not in Asia) doesn't like the idea of people easily hooking up laptop panels to PCs. Plasma TV's even have DVI inputs on them, and I find it unlikley that they'd wanna change it.

But my original point was, despite who interpreted the article correctly, DVI is still by all means a standard. And only one standard. DVI-D is just digital, but DVD-I also allows analog signals to be used as well. Still one standard. But they are more or less the same and one works w/ the other. Not the case for the many different types of LVDS (internal or external) and TTL systems.

The only 100% fact I can get out of that article is that they're going to phase out TTL. That's a good thing because there are probably more than 50 different types of TTL connectors and pinouts for various LCD panels (older ones).

Reading the article again, it does appear that they are all going to use one standard (I know I said earlier it wasn't likely), but I can't tell for sure because it just says "LVDS standard", whatever that means. It doesn't say that it means all pinouts and connecters will have to be the same- just the ICs. If it does mean that the connectors are all interchangable, that's very good news. It means that all LCD controller cards and SBCs w/ LCD controllers built in will all work with all newer panels without custom cables and adapters. But I still think common graphics cards like ATIs and Matroxes will still support DVI and will not have any LVDS connectors on them.

I think the question now is, if I'm right, and the panels will all use the same connectors, which LVDS internal system is going to be used for this new standard? If remp is right, then what will the external LVDS system look like?

[Rekr]

Take a look at these panels, new and only $198
15 inch Lcd


Rekr