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Very high output LCD/OHP based.. insane?
Very high output LCD/OHP based.. insane?
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Old 7th December 2004, 06:49 AM   #1
telemonster is offline telemonster  United States
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Default Very high output LCD/OHP based.. insane?

Hello everyone,

I was intruged by the Tom's hardware article.

I started doing research mainly on bulbs and color temperatures.

I have experience mainly with high powered laser setups, as well as Intellabeam fixtures that use MSR-400/OSRAM 400 bulbs.

I don't have an OHP yet to experiment with. How sensitive is the OHP to bulb centering? I was thinking about trying to use 4 or 8 of the halogen lamps from worklights. The color temperature is 3000, which is way yellow but by using wratten filters it should be possible to bring the temperature up to 5000, which is better. This would only work if the OHP's don't really rely on internally focused light.

I'm looking for insane output. I found two other bulbs of interest, one is the DTY which puts out 10,000 watts (too much as it would require 100 amps @ 120vac) and the other is a DPY which produces 5,000 watts @ 3200 degree color temp.

I realize the thing will have to be cooled well. I haven't looked to see if IR or UV light is radiated from the very large bulbs. @ 120vac thats a 60 amp circuit, yikes. It would be much easier to deal with 220vac @ 30amps.

The MSR-1200's require ballast, which makes things messy. That bulb might do a good job though and should be at 5600.

Basically I would like to be able to project 8' high, 12' wide images brightly outdoors at night. My eventual goal is to build 3 of these and run a 3 headed computer to do very wide displays. Use them at indoor computer shows to show videos about projects or around town for gurilla marketing. Moving the 5 watt argon laser system around is too much of a hassle, as is filing all of the paperwork (I really would need a 20watt+ YAG system).

I see people talking of MH lamps, I haven't looked into 1000 - 2000 watt versions of those yet.

DVS, BLV and DWT lamps are the Halogens I was looking at. If the lens setups in OHP projectors are picky about bulbs, the illumination from long halogen lamps might not work.

Also keystone correction would be nice :-) A feature I don't see on any overheads. Given the amount of light I want to push, the entire overhead would probably be mounted in a flight case, with baffles to accomodate air rushing in and heat rushing out, but minimizing light escape.

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Old 7th December 2004, 03:13 PM   #2
telemonster is offline telemonster  United States
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Default More info...

Okay, I've done lots of research looking mainly at Metal Halide bulbs. I love em! 5600 degree color temp! The ballasts are reasonably priced, not $1000 like the ones for club lights that use MSR-1200s.

So I'm thinking about 1000, 1500 or maybe 2000 watt MH lamp. I'm trying to find out if M134 ballast (2000 watt MH) can run on 208/240 or if they are all 480vac.

I looked hard at the designs on allinbox.com ... neat stuff, I notice they use a lens on the light source. Also I'm wondering if the acrylic fresnel lens would melt, or the LCD panel.... I figure I would use blowers to keep the optics cool and move the heat out of the chassis as fast as possible. Heat absorbing glass, etc.

Has anyone messed with keystone correction on DIY projectors?

I plan to also use the design of threaded rod + DC motor for electronic focus control... but keystone correction would be slick. More research!@#!@#
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Old 7th December 2004, 10:57 PM   #3
SGSeeker is offline SGSeeker  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: WA
the more powerful MH bulbs are generally larger (15"+ in length! half that in diameter) and ideally, we want a point light source to get an evenly lit lcd (when using a fresnel) and focused screeen. All the 1000 watts I've seen are pushing it and I wouldn't be surprised if its impossible to get all the light focused on the screen. Heat will be a big issue also. You most likely won't get a reflector to work or work well, which will bring the efficiency down quite a bit. You can try it though, just plan on having an extremely noisy projector and having to deal with huge amounts of UV light. Glad I don't have your electric bill

On the keystone issue, its been done - I think both here and on many other message boards. It isn't too difficult to implement but adds to complexity
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Old 7th December 2004, 11:33 PM   #4
telemonster is offline telemonster  United States
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Interesting. I was thinking about trying to use a reflector behind the huge bulb (the 1500's are indeed 15" long, but there are 2000 watt ones that are shorter (the look like halogens).

Check out: http://www.eyelighting.com/supplement.pdf
Page # 13 of 36.

My target was 2, since I can't seem to find much in the way of ballasts that aren't 480vac for the 2000 watt bulbs.

I was thinking of using a reflector behind the bulb, and then a lens in front of the bulb similiar to this: http://allinbox.com/allinside2/allinside.htm

I plan to use a blower, not just a fan. I figure a 150mw argon laser runs 12 amps into a short tube and remains air cooled, so it should be possible to dissapte the heat. I plan to run the blower on a circuit on it's own, tied to a contactor that will drop power to the lamp if the fan power is cut. Also a temperature probe or 4.

I will build is to the bulb is mostly surrounded by metal, just incase she pops.

The Intellabeam light fixtures use MSR-400 bulbs, which have a IR hazard. Is there an IR hazard with metal halide bulbs? I've read that people are using lexan with uv protection as a UV filter. Interesting. I figure I will need a heavy blower to cool the light source, and fairly good AC fans to keep the panel / optics cool. Hope the fresnel doesn't melt?

I'm not at all concerned about noise, as long as it isn't a leaf blower. I'd like to be able to rear project on a surface that is about 9 x 12.... that would be the bomb. Frame a portable rear projection screen with supports to build basically a crazy rear projection TV.

Or be able to front project on buildings at night, and such.
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Old 9th December 2004, 12:08 AM   #5
telemonster is offline telemonster  United States
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
I might have found a better bulb! But I can't find a price... moohaha.

Check this out:


1000 watt @ 5900K, 2000 watt @ 4400K.

Lack of price could mean bad things.

The bulb sort of looks like the $200 EYE one, so maybe EYE has a short arc model ... Still waiting for a response from EYE's sales/tech support people.
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Old 9th December 2004, 02:43 AM   #6
ancorp is offline ancorp  Canada
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vaughan, Ontario (near Toronto)
what about the bulbs at 1000bulbs?

Here, 1000w


Here , 1500w

the 1000bulbs.com website also has ballasts for 1000 and 1500 watt MH bulbs, 120-277 and 480 volt ones.
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Old 9th December 2004, 03:12 AM   #7
telemonster is offline telemonster  United States
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
I was looking at those style bulbs at first... they are 15" long, and others have suggested that the arc width is too wide. EYE lighting (the mfgr) doesn't have arc widths on the US version of their site, but I found some info on the jap site (after google translated). It appears they are all long arc, with the exception of two specific bulbs.

Here is the large URL:


The one thing that bothers me... the short arc bulbs look PERFECT in theory, 30mm arc I believe it says. But if you look at the little icon for the light radiation pattern, it looks like the light is being emitted from two separate places... not good.

I emailed the Richmond, Virginia dealer for EYE seeking assistance. There is very little info about these lamps on the intArweb.

The 15" bulb with the long arc is availible for $100 with a color temp of 5600K (CRI of 92 I think)... that's awesome. I'm not an optical wiz yet. I'm not sure, but it seems like it should be possible to put a lens in front of the lamp to focus all of the light down to a point, then turn around and expand it with an optic to a fresnel? Not sure...

It's driving me nuts, not having good infos on the EYE short-arc bulbs.
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Old 11th December 2004, 11:27 PM   #8
Squalish is offline Squalish  United States
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sector ZZ9 plural Z alpha
Nope, not gonna work, although I'm a bit fuzzy on how the fresnel focusses light, I've heard multiple times from experts that you can't use the long-arc lamps popular for aquariums and, ahem, 'agricultural' lighting.
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