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Old 20th January 2003, 02:11 AM   #1
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Default Philips LCP 5200 projector

Hi all,
I just bought this really second hand LCD projector at just $100, its Philip 5200. Its really small and portable with even surround sound. It has 180,000 pixels and uses a halogen bulb 12V 75w. All this sounds promising, until I plug it in.

The picture produce is quite wash out and lack of brightness.

Do you think I should change the bulb to a 150w one, do you think this will help brightened and sharpen the image?

Does anyone have this kind of projector?

Any help is very much appreciated, thanks.
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Old 20th January 2003, 07:46 AM   #2
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Default Re: Philips LCP 5200 projector

/// *** ALERT - THIS MESSAGE *MAY* INCLUDE SOME ***-KICKING *** /// Well, ok, there'll be words of wisdom somewhere inside all that sarcasm and ***-kicking ;D
Heh, "promising". If you are going to use the thing with VHS or maybe even television then the amaaazink 180,000 pixels (what is that? 480x360?) then thats an ok resolution.
With a surround sound? Usually they have two really really really (we are talking about headphone speakersize) small speakers on them... does yours really have some system with 4 or 5 separate speakers and a maybe a subwoofer? Or is that "surround" just one of those "fine" surrounds of philips that "work" with two speakers and the sound is spatialized when you push the "Surround" button?
The last "promising" spesification is the most "promising" of all. I mean... haven't you read anything on this forum? I don't hink you have because if you would have you would've notice even SOMETHING about what kinds of wattages on different kinds of lamps are needed to get even somewhat ok image projected (With those OHP+LCD-panel setups they are using mostly about 400w metal-halide lamps and a 400w metal-halide lamp is about double or even more brighter than a 400w halogen! With some LCDs that pass trough better than others and good optics you might get decent night time viewable image with something like 250w halogen or so). 75W 12v halogen... uh... how have they designed the thing to work with something like that anyways.

Ok... after all this "teaching" I'll try to help you. In case that the 75w/12v information about the lamp was obtained from the side of the lamp or from the guy who sold the projector to you then the first thing that I think you should check would be is it really meant to take 75w lamps or if there might be a small text somewhere on the projector that says something else about the lamp. If there is such a text that says it could take 150w or 250w or something like that then write that info down and buy such a lamp and try it out.
If it really is designed to use 75w lamps then the thing gets a bit more complicated. At that point you have to do some detective work. You have to investigate what kind of base the original lamp had. If it is something that can be used with a higher wattage lamp then you get a lot easier cause you don't have to install new base. If you are thinking of using metal-halides or such you will have to replace the base for sure. Then you have to check the wiring, cause if the wires are not thick enough to take 150w or 250w or whatever you might wanna try then you might have to change them to something heavier. Then you'll also have to get a heavier transformer or ballast (depending on what kind of a lamp you are going to use) for the lamp, the 75w transformer will very likely pop quite immediatly on loads of 150w+. And after all this, with new brighter light source you'll have to have one of those cheap in/out digital thermometers, rip its "out" sensor apart so that all that is left is the actual sensor in the end of the wires (really small thingie, and quite fragile also, be careful when ripping the thing apart) and plant that to your projector so that it touches the LCD-panel/panels or at least it's frame.
Now you can try out the new light source but be careful.... keep your eye also on the temperature of the lcd! This is a point where I dont have the exact information about how hot they can be before they "die" but I've understood it is not a very high temperature, so you should never let the temperature go any higher the 40-50c I'd say (of course you could check the standard 75w halogen setup running couple of hours and then checking how hot it makes the LCD's and then try to obtain about the same temps with the new setup). If the temperature climbs higher then supposed then you'll have to shut the thing down and wait it to cool down OR you can install some new cooling fans on it and so on to keep it cooler all the time.
Ok... then there is one more thing that I'd try before any of that modding and tweakning. I know that there are 100w/12v/2800lumen/2000h halogen lamps. With those you'd get just a bit brighter image for 2000 hours and if you are lucky, it'll fit right in to the lamp base that you already have, and even the 75w transformer MIGHT be able to take the extra 25w load. Cost is about 10 bucks I think. Take your 75w lamp with you and go to some local lampstores that sell lamps for HOME USE and show it to them and ask for a 100w/12v one that looks like the same. You just might get lucky.

Ok. That's that about this subject for now. Check the stuff at http://robo.zapto.org/semidiy it's about retrofitting an old LCD-projector.

Regards
HB
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Old 20th January 2003, 08:33 AM   #3
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Default ok I know it sucks.... I'm not stupid.

I know that it sucks thats why I asked for help. You don't have to tell me that it sucks, I know, thats why I write "promising". But for a 100 bucks what do you expect, it does do projection (even though its not that great), thats why I ask for help to improve it, I never said it does a great job, I repeat its dirt cheap at 100 bucks for a projector.

here's info about it if anybody is interested :
http://www.tele-satellite.com/TSI/9512/precon.shtml

thanks for your comments and help anyway.
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Old 20th January 2003, 09:02 AM   #4
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Old 21st January 2003, 12:59 AM   #5
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Default 3M MP8650

well now I'm thinking of buying a second hand 3M MP8650 (1000 lumens) without the bulb which costs $200.

you think I can mod the lighting parts ?
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Old 21st January 2003, 06:59 AM   #6
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Default Re: 3M MP8650

Quote:
Originally posted by daRkStar
well now I'm thinking of buying a second hand 3M MP8650 (1000 lumens) without the bulb which costs $200.
you think I can mod the lighting parts ?
Heh, that is very hard to tell by the appearance of the projector. I think that any kind of equipment is always possible to modify, sometimes quite complicated tough
I checked out the specs of the projector and if you get the thing cheap then it might be a semidiy dream machine because it uses 350w metal-halide, thus it has ballast already in it (even tough the ballast might not be compatible with any other metal-halides besides the on in it... you'll just have to investigate about that one...). It might be hard to find a cheap metal-halide that fits that one tough.
Of course you can fit it with a halogen or HID (smaller bulbs) but in that case you probably have the trouble of replacing the whole lightsource beginning from the ballast/transformet of the halogen/hid and so on... but that is the actual retrofitting, so just get to work

Regards
HB
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Old 21st January 2003, 07:12 AM   #7
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Default $1200 for the bulb

I call 3M and they said it costs $1200 for the bulb, MY GOODNESS!!! I never knew that it could cost SO MUCH just for a bulb.

But the specs on the projector is quite good, 1000 lumens, 800x600 so I very much tempted to just buy it and add a light source to it without buying the actual bulb.

I wonder if it will work without the bulb, I mean if I switch it ON will the LCD and all the component work, or does it need to be "fooled" for the things to work.

Whats your view?

I have another guy who wants to sell me a DLP projector (Viewsonic PJL830 LCD Projector DLP) for $1200 but the bulb life is left with a few hours. And the replacement bulbs costs $600, which is still too costly for me.

so I thought I just buy the 3M projector MP8650 ($200) and do the lights.

sigh... they should be cheaper alternative bulbs for this projectors....
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Old 21st January 2003, 07:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: $1200 for the bulb

Quote:
Originally posted by daRkStar
I call 3M and they said it costs $1200 for the bulb, MY GOODNESS!!! I never knew that it could cost SO MUCH just for a bulb.
Yesh, they can be expensive and well, that is a 350w metal-halide... on my sony the 120w UHP bulb of it's cost 660e here in Finland so I am not suprised that a 350w monsterbulb costs over 1000 bucks :B

Quote:
But the specs on the projector is quite good, 1000 lumens, 800x600 so I very much tempted to just buy it and add a light source to it without buying the actual bulb.
Well... just remember that the 1000lumens is the output brightness when using 350w metal-halide bulb especially made for that projector. You might get something close to 1000 lumens with some 400+ w metal-halide. With about 250w halogen/150w HID setup you'll probably have more or less about 500 output lumens (which is quite nice in the end actually, my sony threw out 500 ANSI lumens and it was well viewable on cloudy day with no curtains on windows).

Quote:
I wonder if it will work without the bulb, I mean if I switch it ON will the LCD and all the component work, or does it need to be "fooled" for the things to work.
Yep, that can be a problem. With my Sony I had to depend on few electrical experts from a newsgroup and we found a way to fool the projector to think that the lamp is there and it is ok. The lamps "powersupply/ballast" was connected to the "LCD-driverboard/mainboard" with a cable that had three wires on it. The voltages were measured on all the wires in both situations, lamp on and off, and then this fellow examined the ballast very closely and there were few simple components that had to be bypassed. In the end, the whole solution was 100ohm resistor between two of the three wires and voila! the projector assumed that the lamp was ok all the time. Bypassing the checks for fans were done in a very similar way.

Quote:
I have another guy who wants to sell me a DLP projector (Viewsonic PJL830 LCD Projector DLP) for $1200 but the bulb life is left with a few hours. And the replacement bulbs costs $600, which is still too costly for me.
What the heck is that LCD doing in there in the name of a DLP projector? Which is it? Most DLP projectors are better than LCDs so you just might wanna check that out....
Altough I dont know about the cost, I would'nt want to start sawing pieces out of a $1200 projector

Quote:

so I thought I just buy the 3M projector MP8650 ($200) and do the lights.
sigh... they should be cheaper alternative bulbs for this projectors....
Yep, seems like a good idea...

Regards
HB
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Old 23rd January 2003, 05:22 AM   #9
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ok I've done, I didn't buy the 3M MP8650 or the DLP projector, I finally bought a second hand Epson EMP3500 that has a 650 lumens and use a 100W UHP that can last 4000 hours. It costs me $400 (manage to hard bargain with the salesguy, he wanted to sell $800).

The projection looks ok even with all the lights fully on. Don't think I need to modify this thing, use it like it is, and hope to complete my home theatre setup.
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Old 23rd January 2003, 09:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by daRkStar
The projection looks ok even with all the lights fully on. Don't think I need to modify this thing, use it like it is, and hope to complete my home theatre setup.
Hahaa, another statement of the fact that the real output of somewhat 500 (or 650 lumens as in this case) lumens is very likely to be very ok!

Yep, there is no need for modifying until the bulb burns out. The epson's bulbs cost about 500 bucks, so thats 12,5 cents per hour. 100w UHP will probably produce something like 6000-7000 lumens. Seems ok if you do get those UHPs at about $500 each. If you don't, then you might want to think about modifying again.
With 300 hour 250w halogen you get 9000 lumens. Easiest way to get optics is ripping apart an old diaprojector, and transformer from some where else (maybe from an OHP). You'll lose at least 3000 of those lumens in the optics of the diaprojector but that seems to be a necessity to gain even light as I am going to explain in another thread very soon after answering to this message. Anyways, you would get that 6000 lumens and the end result should be about the same 650 lumens as with the 100w UHP. These 300 hour 250w EVC bulbs cost 7,5 euros here in finland I'd guess you could get them for about $7,5 from all around the world, maybe even cheaper. That is 2,5 cents per hour. Pretty cheap...

Regards
HB
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