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Old 15th July 2011, 04:00 AM   #21
dth31 is offline dth31  United States
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Bottom line: I like the EML45's a LOT. Mainly I like the fact that they are quiet, and in the Tram 2, that is incredibly important.

Having said that, I can see that some people might prefer NOS45's if their tubes were quiet enough. When the RCA 45's I was using were quiet enough (which wasn't very often) the sound was a LITTLE more liquid, which I like. The EMLs have a bit more of a high-definition and slightly less-liquid sound. With the EML45's cymbals and strings are more pronounced, and sound more natural and like real instruments. It's easier to follow individual string instruments with the EMLs, which I like, and percussion instruments are more percussive.

So for me, I won't go back to the NOS 45's. But if, for example, my speakers were more tipped-up in the upper midrange and treble, I can see that the EMLs might be too much of a good thing. For my system, they are a GREAT match. If they were only just a bit more liquid...

Dave

My system: Tram 2 preamp; Lux91 Mono Max amps; Rega Saturn CDP; Bastanis Prometheus II speakers with Gemini tweeters
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Old 3rd September 2011, 12:58 PM   #22
Desmo is offline Desmo  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronal View Post

I have some TJ 2A3s that I will be evaluating this weekend.
Any news on the sound of these in the Tram II..!?
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Old 3rd September 2011, 01:11 PM   #23
Desmo is offline Desmo  Denmark
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So far I have tried the following triodes in my Tram II. From left to right in the picture:

NOS Sylvania 45:
No microphonics or hum with these tubes. The sound very clean, clear and detailed, maybe the most neutral sounding of the tubes I have tried. But they also tend to sound a lille bit polite, less involving and has less dynamic contrast than the 2A3 tubes, especially in the bass. They have a tight sound with excellent timing, but ultimately I find them a bit boring compared to the 2A3's...

NOS RCA 2A3
No microphonics, but there is hum with these tubes, especially with the Valve Art 274 rectifiers. With NOS Svetlana rectifiers the hum is reduced but still audible. Maybe I should mention that I use the -3 dB output and have the volume at around 2-3 o clock when playing loud. Besides the hum issues these tubes sounds very good in the Tram II: They have the same clarity as the Sylvania 45 and adds life, body and a fuller and more dynamic bass.

Treasure 2A3-Z
These are my current production tubes... There is no hum with these, but they are quite microphonic, even with the Herbies tube dampers. This is a shame because they are quite nice sounding. They are not on the warm and romantic side of the fence. These are clear, transparent, excellent bass and dynamics. The small downsides might be related to them being microphonic: The upper mid and the treble can sound a bit bright. They don't sound hard or aggressive in any way, but there is a slight ''shimmer'' to the sound making them less distinct in the treble than the NOS tubes.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Desmo; 3rd September 2011 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 11th September 2011, 10:07 AM   #24
Desmo is offline Desmo  Denmark
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More tube rolling...

Worth noting is, that I have used NOS Svetlana rectifiers and Mu tube for all the tube rolling. I also tried Valve Art 274 rectifiers, but there is too much hum with them on some of the tubes. With Svetlana rectifiers I have no hum with any of these tubes...

From left to right:

JJ 2A3-40
These tubes are very big and they have excellent workman ship with thick glass, beautifully made, not very microphonic etc... For me this might be the tubes that are the most difficult to describe. Maybe because it's difficult for me to figure out if I like them. The good thing with these tubes is, that they are very transparent, very detailed and are lively / dynamic. I really like these qualities and they put this tube high on my most wanted tubes for the Tram II. What I don't like about the JJ is, that they are bright sounding with a forward upper midrange and treble. This draws (IMHO) too much focus on the treble range that is kind of ''playing on it's own'' more than being nicely integrated. The treble can also sound slightly splashy at times. In my system I would not use them without changing something in the system (cables etc) because I like the sound to be coherent.

I should note, that these are a pair of brand new tubes and that I have put something like 30 - 40 hours on them by now. Maybe the treble will integrate better with more hours on the tubes..!? These are loaners so I will hand them back soon, and not know...

Treasure 2A3-Z
These are becoming my benchmark because these are the tubes I know well in the Tram II. I have described their sound in the post above, so here I will just make brief comparison to the JJ...

With the Treasure in place the coherence is back, the treble is more integrated and the sound is slightly fuller, especially in the bass. To me these tubes sound neutral in my system, and the JJ slightly cold sounding. Others might call the JJ neutral and the Treasure slightly warm. The first impression is, that they are not as detailed as the JJ, but I think it's more a matter of the tubes different approach to the sound. The JJ highlights the detailes, the Treasure has the details, but they are slightly deeper in the mix.

NOS Sylvania 45
This is a different pair, than the ones described above. I managed to find a nos pair with identical date codes, could not resist ;-)

Compared to both of the 2A3 variants mentioned above the Sylvania 45's are less dynamic and has less of that ''drama and live feeling'' that I like so much with the 2A3's. The Sylvanias area a bit polite and a bit more laid back sounding. In the first comparison I wrote that I found (the other pair) a bit boring. I will moderate this, boring is to make too much of the difference so let me say they are a bit more laid back, and not quite as explosive on dynamics. What is very, very nice about these tubes is, that they are exceptionally coherent. From the deepest bass to the highest treble these tubes have more coherence than any 2A3 tube I have tried. These tube does not startle with dynamics, but they draw me into the music because I stop listening to the elements of sound and focus on the whole and the emotional messages in the music.


Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.



For me, the perfect tube will have the coherence and the oneness of the Sylvania 45 and the drama and dynamics of the 2A3's. With the tubes I have tried so far the Treasure 2A3-Z and the NOS RCA 2A3 comes closest in combining the virtues...
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Old 12th September 2011, 08:23 AM   #25
bronal is offline bronal  Australia
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Desmo, what power amp are you using? To me the Tram is only half of the equation.

We haven't been able to use any 2A3s without hum. Also. IME most new production 45s are microphonic. This really narrows things down so far to NOS 45s or EMLs.

I prefer solid plate EMLs over the mesh plates. The solid plates have better bass and presence, whereas I find the mesh plates to be slightly vaguer. Both kinds develop less microphony over time.

The problem with NOS 45s is that you are dealing with valves made 50+ years ago, hence there can be problems relating to deterioration with age - crackling, whispering, strange noises, etc. You can spend $$$s to get a good long-term pair. But they are generally not microphonic.
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Old 12th September 2011, 01:02 PM   #26
Desmo is offline Desmo  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronal View Post
Desmo, what power amp are you using? To me the Tram is only half of the equation.

We haven't been able to use any 2A3s without hum. Also. IME most new production 45s are microphonic. This really narrows things down so far to NOS 45s or EMLs.

I prefer solid plate EMLs over the mesh plates. The solid plates have better bass and presence, whereas I find the mesh plates to be slightly vaguer. Both kinds develop less microphony over time.

The problem with NOS 45s is that you are dealing with valves made 50+ years ago, hence there can be problems relating to deterioration with age - crackling, whispering, strange noises, etc. You can spend $$$s to get a good long-term pair. But they are generally not microphonic.
I'm using a Plinius SA-Reference amp...

The only tubes I have tried where I have problems with hum are the NOS RCA 2A3, with all other 2A3 tubes, including the new production Treasure and JJ tubes there is no hum. No hum either with the NOS 45 tubes from Sylvania as long as I don't use the VA 274 rectifiers.

When using the VA274 rectifiers there is hum with all my NOS tubes, but still no hum with the current production 2A3's from Treasure and JJ...

Last edited by Desmo; 12th September 2011 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 14th September 2011, 01:16 PM   #27
jacklee is offline jacklee  Hong Kong
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I recently tried 3 types of EML 45s in my Tram2: (a) solid plate; (b) mesh plate; and (c) solid plate globe version.

First off I measure the tube pin diameters and found that compared to old stock 45, the two large pins are similar in diameter. It is the small pins which are slightly larger than old stock tube. Nonetheless the tube socket seems to be doing fine and have not become loosen because of this.

Among the three tubes the best sounding one is the globe solid plate 45. It retains all the good qualities of the ST solid plate 45, i.e., neutral, smooth and balanced, while offering slightly better resolution and separation. In other words it is clearer sounding while still sounding smooth.

The mesh plate 45 by contrast sounds fuzzy, possibly due to the much higher microphonics compared to the solid plates (even with Herbie tube dampers on). For use in the Tram the mesh plate 45 is definitely not a good match.

Wonder if anyone has tried the EML 2A3?

Jack
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Old 23rd February 2013, 06:19 PM   #28
kazap is offline kazap  Australia
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Anyone heard this Full Music 2A3/C?

Click the image to open in full size.


http://www.fullmusictube.com/product...cuum-tube.html
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