I'm not buying more 45's or 2A3's for sure 
So I a bunch of tubes collecting dust... I have a pair of EH 2A3 (cheap ones just to get started). Two pairs of NOS RCA 2A3. The Treasure 2A3 and a pair of NOS Sylvania 45's.
The NOS RCA 2A3 might be the ones that come closest to the Full Music 2A3/SE. The have some of the same sonic footprint, or maybe I should say some of the same LACK of sonic footprint. They do not sound as good though, and what has kept me from using them more is, that there are all kinds of problems with them: With one pair there is hum, I could reduce this by making shielded tubes / housings for the tubes, but I don't want that. The second pair is extremely microphonic. Too bad because they sound quite good, but ultimately they are not for preamp use (IMHO). For a power amp I'm sure that they will work much better...
Anyway, with the Full Music 2A3/SE there is no need to consider tubes for a while And with the soft start of the heaters from the Rod Coleman regulators and the intelligent start up from the autobias module in the Tram II tube life should be up to 2000 - 5000 hours for a pair of these tubes, so the investment is not too bad - per hour.
I will play a bit with rectifiers and mu tubes again. For now I use NOS RCA rectifier and a NOS Cunningham 6AS7. This combination is the most transparent and clean sounding of the tubes I have. The NOS Svetlana rectifiers and mu tubes I have are a bit fuller and warmer sounding. I will try these together with the 2A3/SE soon...
So I a bunch of tubes collecting dust... I have a pair of EH 2A3 (cheap ones just to get started). Two pairs of NOS RCA 2A3. The Treasure 2A3 and a pair of NOS Sylvania 45's.The NOS RCA 2A3 might be the ones that come closest to the Full Music 2A3/SE. The have some of the same sonic footprint, or maybe I should say some of the same LACK of sonic footprint. They do not sound as good though, and what has kept me from using them more is, that there are all kinds of problems with them: With one pair there is hum, I could reduce this by making shielded tubes / housings for the tubes, but I don't want that. The second pair is extremely microphonic. Too bad because they sound quite good, but ultimately they are not for preamp use (IMHO). For a power amp I'm sure that they will work much better...
Anyway, with the Full Music 2A3/SE there is no need to consider tubes for a while
And with the soft start of the heaters from the Rod Coleman regulators and the intelligent start up from the autobias module in the Tram II tube life should be up to 2000 - 5000 hours for a pair of these tubes, so the investment is not too bad - per hour.I will play a bit with rectifiers and mu tubes again. For now I use NOS RCA rectifier and a NOS Cunningham 6AS7. This combination is the most transparent and clean sounding of the tubes I have. The NOS Svetlana rectifiers and mu tubes I have are a bit fuller and warmer sounding. I will try these together with the 2A3/SE soon...
Morten, if you can borrow a GEC or Cossor or Osram or Brimar-Osram or Mullard-Osram U52 (5U4) rectifier, they sound extremely good in the Tram2. I borrowed one for my audio meeting and it made an audio difference for the better. You can have a look at the U52 tubes at www.natubes.com.
Are the NOS RCA 2A3 tubes single plate or are they double plate.
Regards
Peter
Are the NOS RCA 2A3 tubes single plate or are they double plate.
Regards
Peter
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It's hard (impossible) to borrow exotic tubes here in little old Denmark, but once I start looking for tubes again I will check out the ones you mention. Thanks..! I'm happy with the rectifiers and mu tubes I have since the different ones I have can be used to -slightly- tweak the sound.
My RCA's are double plates. I will never ever pay the insane prices for the single plate ones (when the price for a pair of questionably quality single plate NOS tubes can buy me two pairs of better sounding and better quality Full Music 2A3/C or /SE), but that's just me I know that they are from China, new production and that it's ''all the bad stuff'', but I don't care... Hearing is believing
Here are descriptions of my tubes: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diy-hifi-supply/191572-tram-2-45-tubes-3.html
My RCA's are double plates. I will never ever pay the insane prices for the single plate ones (when the price for a pair of questionably quality single plate NOS tubes can buy me two pairs of better sounding and better quality Full Music 2A3/C or /SE), but that's just me
I know that they are from China, new production and that it's ''all the bad stuff'', but I don't care... Hearing is believing Here are descriptions of my tubes: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diy-hifi-supply/191572-tram-2-45-tubes-3.html
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I'm looking forward to read your evaluation of them (and man it must be nice to know someone with so many tubes to borrow from) From what I have heard/read then the single plates are better, but not by a lot, and the prices are high... Based on my experience the risk is also high with these old tubes, especially in a design like the Tram II that is so tube-sensitive.
From what I have heard/read then the single plates are better, but not by a lot, and the prices are high... Based on my experience the risk is also high with these old tubes, especially in a design like the Tram II that is so tube-sensitive.Morten, see http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...3t-dht-otl-linestage-tram-2-my-system-now.jpg for the person I am borrowing the tubes from.
B+ Voltage
Hello everyone
I just have finished my Tram2 and following the test protocol. I have now two issues:
- The B+ Voltage should be 250 V. I am getting 440V without tubes.
- The voltage between triode grid and ground should be -65V. I am getting -110V
I would appreciate any recommendations. After assembying the unit Im so eager to hear it, that i cannot wait anymore.
I am located in Germany at 230V
Regards
Marybety
Hello everyone
I just have finished my Tram2 and following the test protocol. I have now two issues:
- The B+ Voltage should be 250 V. I am getting 440V without tubes.
- The voltage between triode grid and ground should be -65V. I am getting -110V
I would appreciate any recommendations. After assembying the unit Im so eager to hear it, that i cannot wait anymore.
I am located in Germany at 230V
Regards
Marybety
Marybety to answer your question please read the e-mails to Simon at DIYHIFI Supply and his reply:
I
On 5/21/2012 5:57 PM, tpashton@bigpond.com wrote:
> Simon, can you also the technician the following.
>
> When I am doing the post build-up testing and adjustment on the Tram2,
> I was able to obtain 2.7 V for the filament supply at step 6 page 24
> of the Tram 2 V1.34 Manual.
> Next I when measured the voltage required at step 8 page 24, I was
> unable to obtain -65V (+/-10V). On the Fluke 85 Digital Multimeter,
> I obtained -110.7 V on the right Channel and -111.8 V on the left
> Channel. During this test and referring to page 18 Step 3 picture
> detailing voltage measurements.
>
> I then inserted the NOS 5U4 rectifier tube and 6AS7 NOS tube into the
> Tram2 sockets per numbering on the top cover of the pre-amp. I
> measured 216 Vac-0-216 Vac on the input to the Universal Power Supply
> Version 2. This would be because I have 240.5 Vac from the wall
> socket. On the output of the universal power supply, I was reading
> 461 Vdc on the B+ to ABS ground per requirement of page 25 paragraph
> 12. It indicates there should only be 250 V and not 461 Vdc. I also
> read -118 Vdc on the Bias . I should have 220 Vdc on the B= and -74
> Vdc on the Bias. I dare not continue with paragraph 16 to measure 120 V +/-5V.
>
> > Please help.
>
> Peter
Answer from Simon:
uploaded a revised manual 1.35 because for the new filament supply
need to insert tubes for testing otherwise the voltage will goes very high
Tram 2 Manual | Diy HiFi Supply
Then:
Simon, is the FCPSU at the Bias point measuring –74 volts. That is the issue with the FCPSU. I measured –118 volts.
Thanks
Peter
Answer: sorry i misunderstood. they measured -110v of FCPSU. It's correct.
regards,
Simon
So you insert the tubes and the Bias is -110 volts
I
On 5/21/2012 5:57 PM, tpashton@bigpond.com wrote:
> Simon, can you also the technician the following.
>
> When I am doing the post build-up testing and adjustment on the Tram2,
> I was able to obtain 2.7 V for the filament supply at step 6 page 24
> of the Tram 2 V1.34 Manual.
> Next I when measured the voltage required at step 8 page 24, I was
> unable to obtain -65V (+/-10V). On the Fluke 85 Digital Multimeter,
> I obtained -110.7 V on the right Channel and -111.8 V on the left
> Channel. During this test and referring to page 18 Step 3 picture
> detailing voltage measurements.
>
> I then inserted the NOS 5U4 rectifier tube and 6AS7 NOS tube into the
> Tram2 sockets per numbering on the top cover of the pre-amp. I
> measured 216 Vac-0-216 Vac on the input to the Universal Power Supply
> Version 2. This would be because I have 240.5 Vac from the wall
> socket. On the output of the universal power supply, I was reading
> 461 Vdc on the B+ to ABS ground per requirement of page 25 paragraph
> 12. It indicates there should only be 250 V and not 461 Vdc. I also
> read -118 Vdc on the Bias . I should have 220 Vdc on the B= and -74
> Vdc on the Bias. I dare not continue with paragraph 16 to measure 120 V +/-5V.
>
> > Please help.
>
> Peter
Answer from Simon:
uploaded a revised manual 1.35 because for the new filament supply
need to insert tubes for testing otherwise the voltage will goes very high
Tram 2 Manual | Diy HiFi Supply
Then:
Simon, is the FCPSU at the Bias point measuring –74 volts. That is the issue with the FCPSU. I measured –118 volts.
Thanks
Peter
Answer: sorry i misunderstood. they measured -110v of FCPSU. It's correct.
regards,
Simon
So you insert the tubes and the Bias is -110 volts
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Thanks a lot four your answer Ptashton.
I tried yesterday with the 274B (5U4) and 6N5P (6as7) tubes.
The B+ voltage without tubes was 440V. With tubes it increased slowly until 400V when I turned the preamp off in order to avoid any damage as the max plate voltage of 6N5P is 250V.
Should I wait longer until it stabilizes?
I tried yesterday with the 274B (5U4) and 6N5P (6as7) tubes.
The B+ voltage without tubes was 440V. With tubes it increased slowly until 400V when I turned the preamp off in order to avoid any damage as the max plate voltage of 6N5P is 250V.
Should I wait longer until it stabilizes?
Well it seems I have found the problem. There were no connection between CCS and Anode pin of the triodes. Yes, my fault. I am very sorry if someone couldnt sleep because of that.
B+ voltage at FCUPS is now 240V
But now I am getting 27V between anode pin of the triodes. It should be 120V. I ve been trying to adjust with the potis but the change is minimum.
Any ideas??
There were no connection between CCS and Anode pin of the triodes. Yes, my fault. I am very sorry if someone couldnt sleep because of that.B+ voltage at FCUPS is now 240V
But now I am getting 27V between anode pin of the triodes. It should be 120V. I ve been trying to adjust with the potis but the change is minimum.
Any ideas??
B+ Voltage TramMK2
Hello Peter
as per your recommendation, I have checked and measured the CCS resistors. Well, one of the 6.8K kiwame resistors is actually a 0.68K resistor!! or may be it is broken. How could that happen????
I guess it should behave better after replacing it. Now I have to wait a couple of days as kiwame nor takman are to find in Germany.
Thanks again for your recommendations.
Regards
Marybety
Hello Peter
as per your recommendation, I have checked and measured the CCS resistors. Well, one of the 6.8K kiwame resistors is actually a 0.68K resistor!! or may be it is broken. How could that happen????
I guess it should behave better after replacing it. Now I have to wait a couple of days as kiwame nor takman are to find in Germany.
Thanks again for your recommendations.
Regards
Marybety
I was asked these questions by pb and thought that I would share the answers with all of you:
I just wanted to ask you, which ones of all the tuning tweaks performed were in your opinion the most noticeable?
or which one would you recommend to start with?
The Rod Coleman DHT regulators gives -by far- the biggest improvement in sound. Actually I consider the sonic improvement from these regulators bigger than all other upgrades combined.
I would also start with the DHT regulators since implementing them takes some structural work and that is much easier to do when building the preamp than after.
I just wanted to ask you, which ones of all the tuning tweaks performed were in your opinion the most noticeable?
or which one would you recommend to start with?
The Rod Coleman DHT regulators gives -by far- the biggest improvement in sound. Actually I consider the sonic improvement from these regulators bigger than all other upgrades combined.
I would also start with the DHT regulators since implementing them takes some structural work and that is much easier to do when building the preamp than after.
Morten, do you have any drawings of the DHT regulator aluminium brackets and heatsinks to share with the forum.
Still waiting on the RCA single plate 2A3 tubes.
I am looking at Philips and Marantz CDM1 laser drives with TDA1541A DACs. I heard a setup and the CD player which was so smooth with the Tram2 pre-amp.
Any experience from the forum on these CD players with the Tram2.
Still waiting on the RCA single plate 2A3 tubes.
I am looking at Philips and Marantz CDM1 laser drives with TDA1541A DACs. I heard a setup and the CD player which was so smooth with the Tram2 pre-amp.
Any experience from the forum on these CD players with the Tram2.
Hi Morten,
Finally got to order power supply parts at Farnell (UK methink) for the Coleman DHT regulators. However, it didn't seem they had the Mills resistors nor the Amtrans caps. If you have any recommendation of a supplier it would be very nice to get a hint
Other issue; as I have a defunct volume controller in my Tram 2, I bypassed the whole input selection anf attenuator board and used a TVC (Sowter model 9335 w/OCC wiring) as volume attenuator. The Tram is a really nice and transparent tubed buffer-stage! :-D
Geir
Finally got to order power supply parts at Farnell (UK methink) for the Coleman DHT regulators. However, it didn't seem they had the Mills resistors nor the Amtrans caps. If you have any recommendation of a supplier it would be very nice to get a hint
Other issue; as I have a defunct volume controller in my Tram 2, I bypassed the whole input selection anf attenuator board and used a TVC (Sowter model 9335 w/OCC wiring) as volume attenuator. The Tram is a really nice and transparent tubed buffer-stage! :-D
Geir
Hi Morten,
Finally got to order power supply parts at Farnell (UK methink) for the Coleman DHT regulators. However, it didn't seem they had the Mills resistors nor the Amtrans caps. If you have any recommendation of a supplier it would be very nice to get a hint
Other issue; as I have a defunct volume controller in my Tram 2, I bypassed the whole input selection anf attenuator board and used a TVC (Sowter model 9335 w/OCC wiring) as volume attenuator. The Tram is a really nice and transparent tubed buffer-stage! :-D
Geir
Hi Geir,
The electronic suppliers usually don't have the audio products, but here are some good sellers that I normally buy parts from:
Parts ConneXion - The authority on hi-fi DIY parts and components
Acoustic-Dimension, high-end audio and components for tube audio
amplifier valve kits, HIFI pre-amplifiers, speaker kits,AMP Parts, upgrade components
Regarding the volume, then you should of course be able to get a replacement under warranty if it does not work..!?
As Clive mentions, a TVC on the output is an interesting solution, have you then omitted the resistor network on the output?
Thank you a lot Morten!
Concerning the defunct attenuator, Simon at Diyhifisupply has already responded positively to replace the control board.
I currently use the TVC in front of the preamp as it gives me the opprtunity to connect balanced sources (XLR) as my RIAA and Weiss DAC which both sounds significantly better using their balanced outputs.
I must say the sound in this set-up is perversely good ;-)
I've not used the TVC after the pre but should be easy to try.
Geir
Concerning the defunct attenuator, Simon at Diyhifisupply has already responded positively to replace the control board.
I currently use the TVC in front of the preamp as it gives me the opprtunity to connect balanced sources (XLR) as my RIAA and Weiss DAC which both sounds significantly better using their balanced outputs.
I must say the sound in this set-up is perversely good ;-)
I've not used the TVC after the pre but should be easy to try.
Geir
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