DHT OTL Linestage - Tram 2 - Page 79 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Commercial Sector > Vendor Forums > DIY HiFi Supply

DIY HiFi Supply Parts and Kits from Diy HiFi Supply

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd May 2013, 12:09 PM   #781
diyAudio Member
 
Vinylsavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lindau
Hi!

Quote:
Originally Posted by clivetjm View Post
You could say it's a German thing too....
Nope it isn't german either. Swiss, german, UK, US ... quite international I'd say

Thomas
__________________
http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2013, 12:36 PM   #782
gregdee is offline gregdee  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
gregdee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Brighton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinylsavor View Post
Hi!



Nope it isn't german either. Swiss, german, UK, US ... quite international I'd say

Thomas
Hi Thomas

Txs for voice from experience
Personally I would go with D.S. TVC or AVC either- they are best in my opinion and also priced very reasonable. That what I found after all

Doesn't matter really who's idea is that , what counts here is that it
is really brilliant idea !
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2013, 10:19 PM   #783
Desmo is offline Desmo  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aarhus
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs View Post
Desmo, not sure its a "UK thing" as I have only really seen it extensively used by Thomas Mayer, such as VinylSavor: Making of a 6AH4 line stage: circuit

I am also not convinced, but I do have a TVC, and the Tram2 is set up for shunt mode (Audio Note DAC with high output....), so I could always feed the Tram2 on max volume into the TVC and see what we get !
My reason for calling it a ''UK thing'' was, that I know two Tram II owners from the UK and both are talking about this I have not heard any other Tram II owner mention this as ''the very important upgrade''. And also on my part: It's as usual a lack of words in a second language. I did not know the proper words But of course it's not a UK thing like in the sence that it's only done in the UK or whatever...

Again, I'm skeptical if it will improve the sound. One could of course argue, that it's a good upgrade if it does not spoil the sound because as Clive mentions: It will make noise performance better. With the Rod Coleman regulators the noise is extremely low, but getting microphonics low will be a good thing.
__________________
Regards, Morten

Last edited by Desmo; 22nd May 2013 at 10:45 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2013, 10:26 PM   #784
kazap is offline kazap  England
diyAudio Member
 
kazap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Default Autoformer Overload?

Is this an overload issue in the plan to take the resister network off the Tram2 and do direct out into Intactaudio aka Dave Slagle's AVC?

Tram2 Output information from Thorsten

Question: with the +6 db output, what is the output in mV?

Maximum output is quite high, several 10's of Volts, Gain is however 6dB (two times), so with the volume control all the way open and 2V in you get 4V out.
______________________________________

Intact autoformer:

Q - What is the maximum input voltage?
A - 8V@20hz
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2013, 10:35 PM   #785
Desmo is offline Desmo  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aarhus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M View Post

I also need to respond to the view that the wiring in the Suprateks is a little messy underneath. I do not disagree with this, but there are reasons for it. Firstly, its mainly messy because the chassis is quite small and jam-packed with exotic servo circuits etc. There is no space to run wires with visual appeal in mind and for the eye to see lots of chassis space - which normally gives the illusion of neatness. It is all hard wired and Mick takes meticulous care twisting every wire onto the contact points and his soldering is expertly applied. He runs the wires from point A to point B in a straight line - the shortest way to do it, no bends and long wires to degrade the sound, it sounds better this way from his experience. But mainly, the chassis is very cramped and all the wiring has to be jammed in there to fit. So why doesn't he build a bigger chassis or use circuit boards to miniturise the layout? I am guessing that PCBs are not purist enough an approach for Mick and bigger chassis would spoil the external aesthetics, which most people agree is a luxurious and timeless look.

The design pedigree of the Supratek is such that it is essentially dead-quiet compared to the Tram2, hardly any hum or buzzes. It is a myth that all DHT preamps are by nature noisy. I think that with the Tram2, a lot of the noise comes about because both power supply and preamp circuit are squeezed into one box and stray eddy currents, RFI, EMI whatever, are all affecting the output signal. The Supratek overcomes this with a two box affair with a long umbilical cord that allows you to separate the power supply. It hums a bit too if you place the power supply right next to the preamp section.
Thank you so much for the comparison with the Suptratek, this is very informative and interesting..! I would be so curious about what you think of the comparisons with some mods on the Tram II

Just to comment on the above that I quoted:

I did not mean to say anything bad about your Supratek, as I mentioned I have admired these preamps for many years... I'm sure that they are build in a ''form follows function'' way, and this is good, the best function and no compromises made. However, it is possible to build complicated circuits neatly in small spaces (I have done this as DIY for 30 years now). It does not take more space to build it neat and good looking, but it takes A LOT more time..! Often something like 5-10 times longer...! And in a commercial product like Suptratek, this is simply not possible because the end price would be much higher than the market will pay. So I believe he makes the best compromise: The function is perfect, and the assembly is cost effective...

Regarding the Tram II and noise: With a good implementation of the Rod Coleman regulators it's completely quiete. I need to have my ear within one meter of the tweeters to hear any hiss at all. Personally I don't believe a compact implementation makes for more noise, as long as the shielding and grounding is taken care of. For instance I have made the heat sinks for my DHT regulators in a way, so they form a box-inside-the-box. By this the rectifiers and the regulators are effectively shielded from the triodes.

In my opinion there are good and bad thing about one box and two box installations.... One box installations can be made with very short wiring, but attention to shielding etc is important. Two box solution has long supply cables (that are somewhat to be seen as part of the signal path), and these wires can pick up hum, interference etc etc. But on the positive side, then AC fields can be more effectively shielded away from the circuits of course.... I'm just saying this to mention, that it's not like a one box solution is a collection of ''everything bad'' and the two box solution is ''all the good''... There are always pro's and con's, and the best implementation is often the one that works/sounds best...
__________________
Regards, Morten

Last edited by Desmo; 22nd May 2013 at 10:41 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2013, 10:44 PM   #786
kazap is offline kazap  England
diyAudio Member
 
kazap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmo View Post
...... it is possible to build complicated circuits neatly in small spaces .....
The classic Supratek internal wiring might appear chaotic but I understand that Mick specifically designed it that way so wires cross at near 90 degrees to reduce cross talk and induced hum
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2013, 10:48 PM   #787
Desmo is offline Desmo  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aarhus
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazap View Post
The classic Supratek internal wiring might appear chaotic but I understand that Mick specifically designed it that way so wires cross at near 90 degrees to reduce cross talk and induced hum
I regret now that I even mentioned the build of the Suptratek's since this is now taking focus... One could also comment on that argument for the wiring, but I think it's better to stop (I will not comment further on it, because it's not my intention to take the thread of track)... For me one of the benefits of DIY is, that we can spend as many hours as we want builing our stuff and it's possible to build in ways, that are both technically / functionally and visually as good as it can be done...
__________________
Regards, Morten

Last edited by Desmo; 22nd May 2013 at 10:51 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2013, 11:02 PM   #788
kazap is offline kazap  England
diyAudio Member
 
kazap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmo View Post
........ .it's not my intention to take the thread of track...... it's possible to build in ways, that are both technically / functionally and visually as good as it can be done...
Even your off topic replies are very educational, so thanks for sharing. You certainly inspire many us to build with both good design and aesthetic taste. Give me thirty years and I might perhaps be able to follow.....
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2013, 04:51 PM   #789
Steve M is offline Steve M  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazap View Post
Give me thirty years and I might perhaps be able to follow.....
Gee, you must be a young fella kazap/H

Steve.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2013, 11:12 AM   #790
kazap is offline kazap  England
diyAudio Member
 
kazap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
Gee, you must be a young fella kazap/H
Well I just had turned two.

In DIY terms that is.

So Im right in the middle of that annoying stage.

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C3M linestage costa23 Tubes / Valves 15 23rd August 2009 08:53 AM
C3m linestage bequerel Tubes / Valves 32 14th April 2009 06:03 AM
48V B+ linestage hirafu_boarder Tubes / Valves 24 11th May 2008 05:57 PM
Another linestage...... kianbach Tubes / Valves 11 28th June 2005 05:34 PM
:: linestage [Bryston B60] :: dhengkoel Solid State 6 26th September 2002 03:32 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:00 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2