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Old 22nd July 2011, 08:48 AM   #211
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Amsterdam
Hi Clivetjm, thanks for your reaction. First time I was about 30 minutes busy setting the bias. Next tme I was about 2 hours busy setting the 120v because I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't drift either way. I have shut down and separated the amp now for several days and today I will look again at the bias. I don't need the 6v output but wanted check out if all the outputs were working properly.

Eugene
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Old 22nd July 2011, 06:53 PM   #212
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Amsterdam
Today I did the bias procedure and noticed that the left channel showed 121v and the right channel 105v. I set both channels about 120v, this procedure took me about
a little hour. I then inserted the pre-amp into my hifi chain. For about
an hour it played through both channels before the left channel start
playing on and off. I took the amp apart and did the bias procedure again.
The left channel showed 123v and the left channel 119v. I set both
channels about 120v and inserted the amp into my hifi chain. Only the
right channel was working. What I noticed is the longer the pre-amp is
playing the more only one channel (right) is working. The left channel
remains silent. I have sent Simon an email about this.
If someone here have a clou for this problem, please let me know, for which I thank you in advance.
Eugene
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Old 24th July 2011, 05:54 AM   #213
reggie is offline reggie  Australia
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: melbourne australia
Hi again from Melbourne, Australia. Picture this: cold winters day, open fire burning in the grate, me lounging about listening to Madeleine Peyroux's "Dance Me to the End of Love" (from her very well mastered album Careless Love - Rounder Records) on my valve gear. "How good's this" I say to myself about 10 seconds before I lose sound from the right channel and I see the equivalent 2A3 tube in the TRAM has gone out. "For goodness sake!!!!", I say to myself. I'll turn it off, wait a bit for it to cool down and then swap tubes. But, no. I'm out of luck. It's not the tube it's the channel. So, after 3 weeks of bliss, it's let me down again. First the left channel goes within 10 minutes of buying the damn thing - necessitating me sending the entire TRAM back to Hong Kong ($180). Then I have to purchase new Shuguang 2A3 tubes because the expensive Full Music tubes don't suit the TRAM. And now, no right channel. You know I think I'm starting to see a pattern here. Eugene, I don't have a cure for your problem but it is obviously the same problem I and a few others are having. Thorston, Simon, Brian Cherry, tell us what we are supposed to do now?

Reggie
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Old 24th July 2011, 07:16 AM   #214
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Hi Reggie,

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
I see the equivalent 2A3 tube in the TRAM has gone out.
Gone out you mean "heater is not lit up" right?

This would suggest the heater supply is out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
Thorston, Simon, Brian Cherry, tell us what we are supposed to do now?
Could you measure the mains voltage at the wall?

Ciao T
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Old 24th July 2011, 08:15 AM   #215
reggie is offline reggie  Australia
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: melbourne australia
Hi Thorsten. Sorry if I sounded peeved in my last post. Anyway, yes the heater supply on the (right channel) 2A3 tube is out. Having taken my life in my hands I measured the voltage from the wall socket (with my little digitech multimeter). I kept the probes in for about 30 seconds. The voltage varied between 253 and 257. It's now 6.15pm on a Sunday evening so whether that has an effect I'm not sure. I hope the TRAM factory used the appropriate 240 volt thingies instead of Hong Kong thingies (110 volts???). Where to now??

Regards

Reggie
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Old 24th July 2011, 12:31 PM   #216
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Hi Reggie,

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
I kept the probes in for about 30 seconds. The voltage varied between 253 and 257. It's now 6.15pm on a Sunday evening so whether that has an effect I'm not sure.
First, this being sunday eve may contribute, but whatever it is it is very high. You may wish to take a few more measurements.

According to EN 50160:2007 the "Harmonised supply voltage" is 230V +/-10% and 115V +/-10%.

So your 253V is just borderline, but anything higher is outside any specification.

Together with using 2A3's you may very well be exceeding component ratings etc. with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
I hope the TRAM factory used the appropriate 240 volt thingies instead of Hong Kong thingies (110 volts???). Where to now??
The standard settings, unless ordered explicitly differently are according to current international standards, this means your voltages are not covered. Had you specified a normal mains voltage of > 250V AC diyhifisupply could have accommodated this, however non-standard mains voltages must be supplied.

Please take this up with Simon and point him to the post here, so you can arrange with him the way forward.

Ciao T
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Old 25th July 2011, 08:10 AM   #217
bronal is offline bronal  Australia
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Canberra
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
Hi Thorsten. Sorry if I sounded peeved in my last post. Anyway, yes the heater supply on the (right channel) 2A3 tube is out. Having taken my life in my hands I measured the voltage from the wall socket (with my little digitech multimeter). I kept the probes in for about 30 seconds. The voltage varied between 253 and 257. It's now 6.15pm on a Sunday evening so whether that has an effect I'm not sure. I hope the TRAM factory used the appropriate 240 volt thingies instead of Hong Kong thingies (110 volts???). Where to now??

Regards

Reggie
Hello Reggie: send your Tram to Decky and let him have a look at it. Voltage here in Canberra is about 245-250 most of the time, so our conditions are similar to yours. Decky can sort out the heater supplies plus do a few other mods as well. Cheaper than HK! Cheers Alan
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Old 29th July 2011, 12:59 PM   #218
reggie is offline reggie  Australia
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: melbourne australia
Hello again Thorsten. Thank you for your response. It may surprise you to know that many people are not electronics savvy. We pay, plug and play and hope for the best. And that's why I purchased the TRAM assembled. I would not know a watt from an ampere and I certainly did not know, prior to receiving your email, that my power supply was anything other than 240 volts. So, thanks to you I now know how to take a voltage reading and that my power supply is (on average) 230 volts AC + 10% - 6%. at 50Hz Only it's not. My local electrician tells me that he is now reading more around the 250+ mark. I have also spoken to my local electricity retailer about my readings. They tell me that (a) they are bound to provide the 230v 10% - 6% (b) that there are several spikes during the day as they switch generators and (c) they agreed to provide a monitoring service to my house. However, despite the official line, I also note that in the territory where I live the Office of the Regulator General, in 2002, allowed a maximum impulse limit of 6kV and a maximum limit of 264 volts (low 216v). Anyway, I have arranged for my TRAM to be inspected and repaired locally. Several things come to mind. If my voltage exceeded the maximum 253 by point 016 volts then you must run some very close tolerances. Secondly, from reading this thread I understand I am not the first person to run foul of exceeding TRAM specifications so you must be aware of the situation. Thirdly, knowing that there is some question mark over the TRAM heater supply, I cannot understand why you say the onus should be on the purchaser (who may or may not be technically competent) and not the manufacturer to issue some form of warning regarding voltages and the use of the 2A3 tube or why you do not build in some additional leeway.
Regards

Reggie

Alan. I have arranged to send the TRAM to Decky. Thank you for the advice. I also looked at the SGR Audio outfit here in Melbourne that Decky represents in Canberra. Wow. The quality is amazing. They manufacture/machine most everything themselves. But $137,000 for their top of the line active speakers exceeds my reach.
Reggie
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Old 29th July 2011, 01:50 PM   #219
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
Hello again Thorsten. Thank you for your response. It may surprise you to know that many people are not electronics savvy. We pay, plug and play and hope for the best. And that's why I purchased the TRAM assembled.
I think this perhaps does not made clear. Even if assembled the Tram is a DIY Item. It means it makes some demands that commercial gear may not (or may) make.

However, the level of mains overvoltage is definitly an issue, not just for the Tram.

When I worked in London in Financial Computer systems we had similar levels of overvoltage. It kept killing the PC's (all from major corporate suppliers) we used, the servers where protected by UPS Systems but the batteries in these needed change at least every halve a year, or more frequent. The problem got so bad we eventually installed a massive dual conversion on-line UPS system for the whole building, one per floor at massive cost!

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
I also note that in the territory where I live the Office of the Regulator General, in 2002, allowed a maximum impulse limit of 6kV and a maximum limit of 264 volts (low 216v).
Diyhifisupply does rely on customers to inform them of the voltage needed, they cannot know every local voltage everywhere. I will ask for the web-pages to be updated to make this more clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
Anyway, I have arranged for my TRAM to be inspected and repaired locally.
Please ask decky to get in touch with me regarding parts and settings etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
Several things come to mind. If my voltage exceeded the maximum 253 by point 016 volts then you must run some very close tolerances.
0.16V are not an issue, but more than that, especially with 2A3 is.

The issue is you needed the Tram set for 250V, because your mains is in that ballpark, instead it was ordered and build for 230V. This means the Tram at your place runs very marginally to start with, being constantly run near the maximum limit. And then it gets extra voltage on top of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
Secondly, from reading this thread I understand I am not the first person to run foul of exceeding TRAM specifications so you must be aware of the situation.
So far this has not a major issue in the US/EU bit it seems to affect Australia quite a lot. If Australia does apply very different limits (possibly by individual territory) than it means a special modified version is needed for Australia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
Thirdly, knowing that there is some question mark over the TRAM heater supply
There is NO questionmark. That was my point before as well.

It runs hot, but within specification and is reliable under normal circumstances including the use of 2A3 Tubes.

If you use tubes that have well above specification current draw and if you use the Tram II with voltages that significantly exceed design limits unreliability is a result.

Despite this I am sure you can come to a reasonable arrangement with Simon regarding repair, if you actually e-mail him, as I recommended. It seems you have not made any contact, normally Simon would have informed me.

Given the situation, namely that you did not know the level of mains voltage and that the website is not clear about the need to correctly specify the mains voltage, I would likely have recommended to try to help you as much as possible in getting things sorted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie View Post
I cannot understand why you say the onus should be on the purchaser (who may or may not be technically competent) and not the manufacturer to issue some form of warning regarding voltages and the use of the 2A3 tube or why you do not build in some additional leeway.
The Leeway build in suffices under normal circumstances. Without switched mode supplies it is not reasonable to try to cover such an extreme range of voltages in one design without modification..

If the circumstances are not normal, how is diyhifisupply to know, if not told? I fully understand your position of "but I did not know" as well. The normal way would be to discuss the issue with the supplier and find a way to resolve issues between you and supplier. This forum here is to discuss the products and provide technical support where needed/possible, but it is not the channel for resolving business related queries.

Kind regards T
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Old 30th July 2011, 04:05 AM   #220
reggie is offline reggie  Australia
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: melbourne australia
Thank you Thorsten for your response. The major thing's I can take away from this are: the TRAM is fixable AND it is worth fixing AND DIYHiFi will modify their website to highlight the voltage/tube aspects to future purchasers.

Regards

Regie
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