Hello guys,
I have Plextor Ultraplex 40X Ultra SCSI cd-rom drive,
and also got some DIRs, PCMs AD1853, OPA627, BUFs etc.
So, what's the goal - cd player with good DACs (I hesitate
between AD1853 and PCM1730) and this Plextor as a transport.
Well, my problem is - does anyone have any idea of where
could be spdif stream inside the cdrom?
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get any more in-depth tech
info on this Plextor ...however, I wont stop trying
One might ask why cdrom, instead of CDM or whatever.
Well, I used to have many cd players and must admit that
this cd rom reads everything( incomparison to CDM's, Sanyo
transports and many more). And, well, despite the fact
that I hear poor output stage on it at the moment, it has
some specific quality to its sound. Is is possible that because
od very good transport (I mean laser, servos etc) the final
sound quality isn't so bad with this cd rom?? (I am asking
because this was my impression, when I hooked it up
directly to power amps and my martin logans).
I wonder whether would it make sense to build very good
PS for it, hook it up to DIR and some good DAC's??
I know there were some theads on this subject, but I am
not talking _run-of-the-mill cdrom, but Plextor
Regards
Spherion
I have Plextor Ultraplex 40X Ultra SCSI cd-rom drive,
and also got some DIRs, PCMs AD1853, OPA627, BUFs etc.
So, what's the goal - cd player with good DACs (I hesitate
between AD1853 and PCM1730) and this Plextor as a transport.
Well, my problem is - does anyone have any idea of where
could be spdif stream inside the cdrom?
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get any more in-depth tech
info on this Plextor ...however, I wont stop trying
One might ask why cdrom, instead of CDM or whatever.
Well, I used to have many cd players and must admit that
this cd rom reads everything( incomparison to CDM's, Sanyo
transports and many more). And, well, despite the fact
that I hear poor output stage on it at the moment, it has
some specific quality to its sound. Is is possible that because
od very good transport (I mean laser, servos etc) the final
sound quality isn't so bad with this cd rom?? (I am asking
because this was my impression, when I hooked it up
directly to power amps and my martin logans).
I wonder whether would it make sense to build very good
PS for it, hook it up to DIR and some good DAC's??
I know there were some theads on this subject, but I am
not talking _run-of-the-mill cdrom, but Plextor
Regards
Spherion
Spherion - I did not think I would have to
EXPLAIN - it is so simple ......
even my children, if I had any
would understand this (so they told me yesterday)
It is built for data "0" and "1" Zeros and Ones.
How is that for an explaination?
/halo - believes in plain logic
EXPLAIN - it is so simple ......
even my children, if I had any
would understand this (so they told me yesterday)
Plextor is not built for AudioSpherion said:
It is built for data "0" and "1" Zeros and Ones.
How is that for an explaination?
/halo - believes in plain logic
well..the audio signal on that stage is just zero:s and one:s aswell... but it migth be better to get one of the older IDE/Scsi units, NEC did do some rugged standalone players long a go...
There is Spdif availible on the IDE bus, do a generall technical search on google or similar.
www.diyzone.net have an IDE table aswell as a display addon somewhere on there site, if memory serves me.
Im also a bit curios about using such a transport while Im currently in the process of making a mini stereo setup
/ micke
There is Spdif availible on the IDE bus, do a generall technical search on google or similar.
www.diyzone.net have an IDE table aswell as a display addon somewhere on there site, if memory serves me.
Im also a bit curios about using such a transport while Im currently in the process of making a mini stereo setup
/ micke
On modern CD-ROM drives, the spdif signal is on a connector to the left of the analog audio connector (just two pins). But this connector is sometimes not correctly wired inside the drive. Simply test it (build an adapter). It worked fine on my Asus 40 and Pioneer DVD 105F, but did not on an LG DVD and Ricoh CDR...
What's more interesting is to control the playback capabilities of the drive without a computer...
And don't let someone tell you that CD-ROMS would sound worse than normal CDA drives...
I dare anyone (yes, and even those using high-end CD Players with modified clocks and DACs) to tell the difference in a BLIND A-B COMPARISON... (read the article on AB-Comparisons on ESP, it is very enlightening...)
Ciao,
Arndt
What's more interesting is to control the playback capabilities of the drive without a computer...
And don't let someone tell you that CD-ROMS would sound worse than normal CDA drives...
I dare anyone (yes, and even those using high-end CD Players with modified clocks and DACs) to tell the difference in a BLIND A-B COMPARISON... (read the article on AB-Comparisons on ESP, it is very enlightening...)
Ciao,
Arndt
Cradle22 said:
You cannot be so bold as to claim anything of the kind. I am positive I could spot the difference.
You can better damp an audio CDP transport, and you have more room for circuitry.. these facts alone mean much less noise and error.
You either have a crap CDP or a poorly set-up system or no knowledge of what you are talking about. No offence.
I like it.
Another alternative is to rip files to hard drive -- the rip process can with Plextor's excellent software be set to low. Windows Media 9 series for example offer lossless compression, but i am regressing here.
But back to basics -- Plextor drives have excellent build quality, probably better than 90% of high-end audio drives. Now, the question is how good the S/PDIF output is compared with said high end drives. Taking the audio directly out of the unit (analog) will probably yield less than optimal results.
A few years back there was a lot of noise in Sterophile about a specific Optimus portable CD player. The explanation behind this was that it sounded so good because the drive unit inside was essentially a computer CD-ROM drive, so with reference to previous postings here one might say that people have differing opinions of PC type CD-ROM drives.
Petter
Another alternative is to rip files to hard drive -- the rip process can with Plextor's excellent software be set to low. Windows Media 9 series for example offer lossless compression, but i am regressing here.
But back to basics -- Plextor drives have excellent build quality, probably better than 90% of high-end audio drives. Now, the question is how good the S/PDIF output is compared with said high end drives. Taking the audio directly out of the unit (analog) will probably yield less than optimal results.
A few years back there was a lot of noise in Sterophile about a specific Optimus portable CD player. The explanation behind this was that it sounded so good because the drive unit inside was essentially a computer CD-ROM drive, so with reference to previous postings here one might say that people have differing opinions of PC type CD-ROM drives.
Petter
Hello Guys, just woke up...spend all night looking for SCSI bus
tech info, got it and now I am going to get Plextor out of my
PC and take a look at what's inside.
Well, my opinion regarding Plextor is based on my 12 years
experience with many different Cd players and cd-rom's as
well. To my logic, if a transport has better read statistics
than other player (ie. reads crap cds that, sasy CDM won't
accept) then it is at the same time better for me (at least
for me).
I can Agree with Petter as for the quality of Plextor. I spend
some time in computer hardware business and there was
no brand like this one. And sth more: currently I have 3 drives
in my pc: Toshiba DVD, Teac CDR and Plextor. Each drive sounds
VERY different. On my Logans it's immediate. As I cannot
tell whether Teac or Toshiba is better, I am sure that Plextor
outperforms them by a wide margin. Well, I've been listening to
it the whole day yesterday and must say that there's
something strange going on - some 'grain' in sound, but very
strange preciseness of soundstage...weel, just going to eat
a dinner (at 16 ) and then take a look inside Plextor.
I suppose that my first move will be to get the analog singal
directly form the dac on board and feed it to amps through
OPA627/BUF634.
Greetz
Spherion
tech info, got it and now I am going to get Plextor out of my
PC and take a look at what's inside.
Well, my opinion regarding Plextor is based on my 12 years
experience with many different Cd players and cd-rom's as
well. To my logic, if a transport has better read statistics
than other player (ie. reads crap cds that, sasy CDM won't
accept) then it is at the same time better for me (at least
for me).
I can Agree with Petter as for the quality of Plextor. I spend
some time in computer hardware business and there was
no brand like this one. And sth more: currently I have 3 drives
in my pc: Toshiba DVD, Teac CDR and Plextor. Each drive sounds
VERY different. On my Logans it's immediate. As I cannot
tell whether Teac or Toshiba is better, I am sure that Plextor
outperforms them by a wide margin. Well, I've been listening to
it the whole day yesterday and must say that there's
something strange going on - some 'grain' in sound, but very
strange preciseness of soundstage...weel, just going to eat
a dinner (at 16
) and then take a look inside Plextor.I suppose that my first move will be to get the analog singal
directly form the dac on board and feed it to amps through
OPA627/BUF634.
Greetz
Spherion
Something more...take a look at this link:
http://www.feurio.com/English/cd_roms/frame_list_scsi_speed.html
The unit I have is the second one form the top of the table
Greets
Spherion
http://www.feurio.com/English/cd_roms/frame_list_scsi_speed.html
The unit I have is the second one form the top of the table
Greets
Spherion
Stryder said:
None taken...
But, if you look at all the posts, you will see, that what we talk about is only the DRIVE, not the entire signal circuitry, like the internal DACs (although I would say that even there the difference would be minimal). You can attach any DAC (high- or low-end...) you like...
And as for knowledge in digital signal processes: My job is programming, and out of private interest I am very much into digital audio processing. And one thing a lot of people like to forget:
A 1 is a 1, and a 0 is a 0, no matter what voodoo clocks or else you use to achieve it.
And I very much believe that you think that you can spot the difference, but to anyone who has never had the eye-opening (or ear-opening) effect of a true AB-comparison (switching between sources, or amps, or speakers nearly without any noise in the switching process), I say: You would not believe it.
It was the same when the respected computer magazine ct in germany first did AB-comparisons of mp3 in comparison to original music data, on studio equipment... Even the so called audiophile experts where blown away, and could not spot any difference at ABR 192 or CBR >= 192.
All I can say: Never trust "money-for-value" or test-magazines, only your ears, even if it hurts because you've spend maybe 40.000 $ on virtually nothing...
And, btw., I think my equipment is kind of adequate, nearly all DIY-Stuff, learned hear or on other forums...
Also from me: No offence
Instead of using a CD-ROM drive you might consider using a CDR unit. You said your plextor will read bad CDs, and I've noticed that CDR drives read the most scratched CDs compared to normal CD-ROMs, maybe it's just the drives I've come in contact with (never used a plextor) but it's something to consider.
Hello guys
To JoeBob - I've came across a plethora of drives. Computer
Cd-Roms, DVD-Roms, CDR/CDRW drives, 'casual' home audio
CD Players, Pro Cd players etc, etc.
As for PC drives - I found out that CDR/CDRW drives are
actually the worst in comparision to DVD/CD-ROM drives
in terms of reading poor discs. DVD-ROMs are slightly better
and 'casual' CD-ROM drives best in this better (especially
Plextor, Teac - table in the link I posted above confirms
my subjective feelings, in a sense).
To Stryder - I can spot the differecne too. But it's not in the
way that PC cd-rom has to sound worse or better as a transport,
compared to, say, CDM 12.4 - it is all about details of construction
etc.
As for the circuitry - I decided to build my own enclosure, so
I don't care about whether will I have room for circuitry or not
Well, Cradle22 - I understand your point of view, however I DO
hear differences between different digital coaxial cables and
cd players with things like blue LEDs etc. Of course, logically
thinking 0 i 0 and 1 is 1 but in digital audio it's all different in
comparision to, say, IT technology. But it'a a SCIENCE NOT VOODOO.
Well, I've been working for two years with so called 'studio equipment' (Klotz, Revox, Soundcraft and many more) and
I must say that: in the first place I do not think that studio
equipment is good for evaluating such things - it is mostly designed to WORK not to SOUND (unless your name is SSL,
ATC, you know what I mean).
In the second place - I do not belive ANY computer magazine,
when it comes to evaluating sound cards, mp3 etc, etc.
These computer magazines compare crap sound cards to
medium hi-fi equipment saying they sound the same...wrrr
Greetz
Spherion
To JoeBob - I've came across a plethora of drives. Computer
Cd-Roms, DVD-Roms, CDR/CDRW drives, 'casual' home audio
CD Players, Pro Cd players etc, etc.
As for PC drives - I found out that CDR/CDRW drives are
actually the worst in comparision to DVD/CD-ROM drives
in terms of reading poor discs. DVD-ROMs are slightly better
and 'casual' CD-ROM drives best in this better (especially
Plextor, Teac - table in the link I posted above confirms
my subjective feelings, in a sense).
To Stryder - I can spot the differecne too. But it's not in the
way that PC cd-rom has to sound worse or better as a transport,
compared to, say, CDM 12.4 - it is all about details of construction
etc.
As for the circuitry - I decided to build my own enclosure, so
I don't care about whether will I have room for circuitry or not
Well, Cradle22 - I understand your point of view, however I DO
hear differences between different digital coaxial cables and
cd players with things like blue LEDs etc. Of course, logically
thinking 0 i 0 and 1 is 1 but in digital audio it's all different in
comparision to, say, IT technology. But it'a a SCIENCE NOT VOODOO.
Well, I've been working for two years with so called 'studio equipment' (Klotz, Revox, Soundcraft and many more) and
I must say that: in the first place I do not think that studio
equipment is good for evaluating such things - it is mostly designed to WORK not to SOUND (unless your name is SSL,
ATC, you know what I mean).
In the second place - I do not belive ANY computer magazine,
when it comes to evaluating sound cards, mp3 etc, etc.
These computer magazines compare crap sound cards to
medium hi-fi equipment saying they sound the same...wrrr
Greetz
Spherion
Re: I must say
Halo,
Let us assume for now
that Genius he is
for how can we find
those wonderful discoveries
without going where no one has gone before
our friend Edison said
-- something like --
invention is easy,
it is just sorting thru all the rejects,
that is hard.
so instead of a discouraging word
let us see if helpful ideas we can give instead
dave
halojoy said:
Halo,
Let us assume for now
that Genius he is
for how can we find
those wonderful discoveries
without going where no one has gone before
our friend Edison said
-- something like --
invention is easy,
it is just sorting thru all the rejects,
that is hard.
so instead of a discouraging word
let us see if helpful ideas we can give instead
dave
In the second place - I do not belive ANY computer magazine,
when it comes to evaluating sound cards, mp3 etc, etc.
These computer magazines compare crap sound cards to
medium hi-fi equipment saying they sound the same...wrrr
---------------------------------------------
I agree. Also, on the issue of CDROM etc, just look at the pages and pages of DAE test without any comment on how well the units work in practice. My Pioneer DVD 106S is described as quiet. Well, I have quietened it and it still intrudes with broad band noise to 18kHz!! I am trying to buy a slow DVDROM and inable to get one.
when it comes to evaluating sound cards, mp3 etc, etc.
These computer magazines compare crap sound cards to
medium hi-fi equipment saying they sound the same...wrrr
---------------------------------------------
I agree. Also, on the issue of CDROM etc, just look at the pages and pages of DAE test without any comment on how well the units work in practice. My Pioneer DVD 106S is described as quiet. Well, I have quietened it and it still intrudes with broad band noise to 18kHz!! I am trying to buy a slow DVDROM and inable to get one.
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