Hi ,
anyone tried to compare sound of new sigma delta DAC's with good old multibit ones like PCM1704 or AD1862 ? How different they sounds ?I wanna make new good sounding DAC project and I am curious about DAC type to use .
Also any suggesion about best opamp for I/V . Is it AD811 or maybe OPA627 or AD8610 ?
Thanks .
anyone tried to compare sound of new sigma delta DAC's with good old multibit ones like PCM1704 or AD1862 ? How different they sounds ?I wanna make new good sounding DAC project and I am curious about DAC type to use .
Also any suggesion about best opamp for I/V . Is it AD811 or maybe OPA627 or AD8610 ?
Thanks .
Everyone of the DAC's you have mentioned are among the best in market. I think the major differencies are how they are "interfaced" and how many components around they need....and how easy they are to solder!
BTW: You have forgot the AK4395.
I personally feel much for CS43122 mostly because good documentation and easy to interface. Soundwise I think all of the chips are really good.
BTW: You have forgot the AK4395.
I personally feel much for CS43122 mostly because good documentation and easy to interface. Soundwise I think all of the chips are really good.
Did you really want the "best op amp for I-V" or the "best IV" ?
A look into the recent past reveals some good (actually great )discussions on discrete designs. A number of folks (me included) beleive that op amps (with lots of negative feedback) are not the optimum device for the I-V circuit positition.
Try here and here for starters. I'm sure there are many other discussions in the archives.
Good luck and share your progress!
mlloyd1
A look into the recent past reveals some good (actually great )discussions on discrete designs. A number of folks (me included) beleive that op amps (with lots of negative feedback) are not the optimum device for the I-V circuit positition.
Try here and here for starters. I'm sure there are many other discussions in the archives.
Good luck and share your progress!
mlloyd1
Vil said:
Hi Peranders,
Glad you mentioned the AK4395. I am using the AK4393, its 96 kHz sister. This is a balanced voltage out DAC that can drive directly into 600 ohms: No need for a nifty I/V converter. I am driving directly a good output transformer with this tiny piece of plastic. This is sounding very good. And relaxed if you can say so.
Glad you mentioned the AK4395. I am using the AK4393, its 96 kHz sister. This is a balanced voltage out DAC that can drive directly into 600 ohms: No need for a nifty I/V converter. I am driving directly a good output transformer with this tiny piece of plastic. This is sounding very good. And relaxed if you can say so.
Discrete IV amp
I do believe it is not the negative feedback that is detrimental to sound but the design of the IC as I have excellent sound from my discrete opamp with as much feedback as the IC. I don't have a explanation or a theory for this and wished it was the other way around
But see also
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...ighlight=distributed+capacitances&r=&session=
for a possible explanation. I also did this experiment with the three supply voltages with my discrete design and it did not make any difference to sound! Hey Michael, is that you who pops up in that old thread??
Hi Mlloyod1,mlloyd1 said:Did you really want the "best op amp for I-V" or the "best IV" ?
A look into the recent past reveals some good (actually great )discussions on discrete designs. A number of folks (me included) beleive that op amps (with lots of negative feedback) are not the optimum device for the I-V circuit positition.
[
mlloyd1
I do believe it is not the negative feedback that is detrimental to sound but the design of the IC as I have excellent sound from my discrete opamp with as much feedback as the IC. I don't have a explanation or a theory for this and wished it was the other way around
But see also
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...ighlight=distributed+capacitances&r=&session=
for a possible explanation. I also did this experiment with the three supply voltages with my discrete design and it did not make any difference to sound! Hey Michael, is that you who pops up in that old thread??
Re: Discrete IV amp
yep, it's me
I was hanging around in some of these audio related discussions in the netnews groups years before www existed. It's kinda fun to search deja news from long times back and see some of the stuff that pops up.
mlloyd1
yep, it's me
I was hanging around in some of these audio related discussions in the netnews groups years before www existed. It's kinda fun to search deja news from long times back and see some of the stuff that pops up.
mlloyd1
Elso Kwak said:... Hey Michael, is that you who pops up in that old thread??
Not yet, I do not have a digital camera at hand. But when I have the occasion I will put up one.
It is a modified M-Audio Superdac. For 260 EU I could not make it myself. I am busy putting a x-tal locked low jitter clock in it a la Guido Tent’s tube DAC. The line transformers are type 3603 from Sowter.
It is a modified M-Audio Superdac. For 260 EU I could not make it myself. I am busy putting a x-tal locked low jitter clock in it a la Guido Tent’s tube DAC. The line transformers are type 3603 from Sowter.
hi Pjotr,
i'm very intrigued by your use of a X-former for the AKM DAC! i was just thinking about doing the same the last few weeks and just came across this thread.
i very much like the sound of the AKM DAC as used in cheap Sony DVD/SACD players, and would like to replace the whole opamp output stage of the Sony with a single transformer, followed perhaps by a JFET buffer. in this manner i can achieve buffering and low-pass filtering in one clean (and feedback-free!) stroke. what type of transformer are you using? i was thinking of getting a 10k:10k Jensen transformer, which has bandwidth of 2Hz to 80kHz or so, and a desirable Bessel function filtering effect above the passband. how does this idea sound to you?
regards,
dorkus
p.s. oops, duh, i just saw what transformers you are using in the post above. i'll take a look.
i'm very intrigued by your use of a X-former for the AKM DAC! i was just thinking about doing the same the last few weeks and just came across this thread.
i very much like the sound of the AKM DAC as used in cheap Sony DVD/SACD players, and would like to replace the whole opamp output stage of the Sony with a single transformer, followed perhaps by a JFET buffer. in this manner i can achieve buffering and low-pass filtering in one clean (and feedback-free!) stroke. what type of transformer are you using? i was thinking of getting a 10k:10k Jensen transformer, which has bandwidth of 2Hz to 80kHz or so, and a desirable Bessel function filtering effect above the passband. how does this idea sound to you?
regards,
dorkus
p.s. oops, duh, i just saw what transformers you are using in the post above. i'll take a look.
Check out at Pioneer Standard Electronics
Just typed AD1955 in search field, and they seem to have it for $11.76
Just typed AD1955 in search field, and they seem to have it for $11.76
Hi Vil,
I did not actually buy the AKM chips separately. I got a M-Audio Superdac that uses the AKM 4593. I got it from my musical instrument store for 260 EU. It is very neat build with a proper laid-out PCB. It has all the digital interfacing neatly build for me. Unfortunately M-Audio does not have it in their program anymore. But if you search the internet these are still plenty available for around $200 - $250.
Dorkus,
The Jensen transformers are for sure top of the line but these are huge expensive and overdone IMO. The transformers from Sowter are also excellent and the ones I choose will fit in the box of the Superdac. Be careful with selecting transformers. The ones you mentioned with 10K/10K impedance are intended as input transformers and are not suitable as output transformers. You need 600ohm/600ohm output/line transformers. Attached the schematic I have used. I did not implement a low pass filter. The 1K resistors lower the signal to acceptable levels for the transformer for low distortion. Also they are needed to protect the DAC chip. The relay performs the muting function and is steered by the signal that otherwise controls the muting transistors. It is a “normally closed” reed relay. It also protects the transformer for DC currents at power on and off.
I did not actually buy the AKM chips separately. I got a M-Audio Superdac that uses the AKM 4593. I got it from my musical instrument store for 260 EU. It is very neat build with a proper laid-out PCB. It has all the digital interfacing neatly build for me. Unfortunately M-Audio does not have it in their program anymore. But if you search the internet these are still plenty available for around $200 - $250.
Dorkus,
The Jensen transformers are for sure top of the line but these are huge expensive and overdone IMO. The transformers from Sowter are also excellent and the ones I choose will fit in the box of the Superdac. Be careful with selecting transformers. The ones you mentioned with 10K/10K impedance are intended as input transformers and are not suitable as output transformers. You need 600ohm/600ohm output/line transformers. Attached the schematic I have used. I did not implement a low pass filter. The 1K resistors lower the signal to acceptable levels for the transformer for low distortion. Also they are needed to protect the DAC chip. The relay performs the muting function and is steered by the signal that otherwise controls the muting transistors. It is a “normally closed” reed relay. It also protects the transformer for DC currents at power on and off.
Attachments
looks great Pjotr, thanks very much for the info - it's just what i was looking for. do you find it performs ok w/o any sort of buffering after the transformer? assumming of course we use reasonable length/capacitance cables, etc. the Sowter xformers sound interesting, do you know offhand how much they are? i'm wondering if after international shipping they'll still be much cheaper than the Jensens.
M-Audio Superdac2496
I happen to have one lying around unused, since I use a much more expensive Musical Fidelity DAC...
If someone is interested to buy it, just mail me. It is a good DAC indeed, and I wouldn't ask a high price...
Regards,
Lucas
Pjotr said:Hi Vil,
I did not actually buy the AKM chips separately. I got a M-Audio Superdac that uses the AKM 4593. I got it from my musical instrument store for 260 EU. It is very neat build with a proper laid-out PCB. It has all the digital interfacing neatly build for me. Unfortunately M-Audio does not have it in their program anymore. But if you search the internet these are still plenty available for around $200 - $250.
I happen to have one lying around unused, since I use a much more expensive Musical Fidelity DAC...
If someone is interested to buy it, just mail me. It is a good DAC indeed, and I wouldn't ask a high price...
Regards,
Lucas
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