44KhZ/16bits versus 96kHz/24 bits

[Nicola]

This is a question from a ignorant who would like to understand how that works.

The CD player specs state
Compatible disc formats 2-channel Super Audio CD / CD
Transport outputs Format: JEITA CP-1201 compliant

from the digital processor
Digital inputs COAXIAL Format: JEITA CP-1201/AES-3 compliant
OPTICAL Format: JEITA CP-1201 compliant
Sampling frequencies
32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz
(16 to 24-bits, 2-channel PCM)

Now if I record with a digital recorder using 96 kHz / 24 bits and copy the track on a CD, there is no sound, although the CD player reads the disc. Strange it sees one track when there are actually two. Why is that ? I was under the assumption, the cd player would play the disc and the processor be able to convert the 96kHz / 24 bits.

[rfbrw]

If you try to record to a CD in any format other than CD-DA, and CD-DA is 16/44, it will not play back correctly in a CD player. 24/96 would need a DAD or DVD-A capable player.

[FastEddy]

" ... if I record with a digital [tape or hard disc?] recorder using 96 kHz / 24 bits and copy the track on a [16bit format] CD, there is no sound ... it sees one track when there are actually two. Why is that ? I was under the assumption, the cd player would play the disc and the processor be able to convert the 96kHz / 24 bits. ..."

The problem is the DAD / DAC in your CD player. Try playing the disc on a 24bit DVD player with audio output hooked to your audio equipment. (The 96k bandwidth may still get truncated to 48k, but it should verify that your disc does or does not contain valid 24bit data "tracks".)

This is of accute interest to those of us who believe that all modern recording should now be done on 24bit systems. All modern professional studios use analog to digital converters that are 24 bit / 96k or better. It should stand to reason that all professional, audiophile or consumer playback equipment should be able to play back this higher quality 24bit data ... That's what Bob Dylan has recently been complaining about = "CD audio sucks."

[neutron7]

although the lower the quality the better for Bob Dylan especially on older recordings. I prefer not to have perfect reproduction of his annoying squawk

[rfbrw]

Originally posted by FastEddy

The problem is the DAD / DAC in your CD player.

No it isn't. The dac couldn't care less about the source. CD players, by and large, play CD's formatted as CD-DA, a format limited to 16/44.

[rfbrw]

Originally posted by Nicola


I was under the assumption, the cd player would play the disc and the processor be able to convert the 96kHz / 24 bits.

In order to play back 24/96 files you would have to either record a DVD-Video as an audio only disc, AKA DAD, or record a DVD-A disc. Either way you would need the appropriate software.

[FastEddy]

" ... In order to play back 24/96 files you would have to either record a DVD-Video ... or record a DVD-A disc. Either way you would need the appropriate software. ..." ... and of course the appropriate playback device.

" ... The dac couldn't care less about the source. ..." Oh contrair' ... If the CD player has a 16bit (only) DAC, it is certainly possible that it can't do anything with a 24 bit data stream ... Certain very modern CD players have a DAC that can handle it ... but not all and not very many older players. Simple test: burn a 24bit wav file on a CD (it will use up a whole lot of space) and play it back on a CD (only) player ...

"CD audio [still] sucks ..." - Bob Dylan

[singa]

Originally posted by FastEddy
"
This is of accute interest to those of us who believe that all modern recording should now be done on 24bit systems. All modern professional studios use analog to digital converters that are 24 bit / 96k or better. It should stand to reason that all professional, audiophile or consumer playback equipment should be able to play back this higher quality 24bit data ... That's what Bob Dylan has recently been complaining about = "CD audio sucks."

I think it's a case of misinterpretation.What Bob Dylan meant was
ever since mastering studios have been pushing up the loudness
level in a mistaken belief that the louder the album the better it sounds and therefore more saleble or successful,the competiton between the studios actually have taken a step back in quality.

Increasing the amplitude/loudness kill the dynamics or contrast between soft and loud parts that make the music interesting.Try listening to techno.

[rfbrw]

Originally posted by FastEddy


" ... The dac couldn't care less about the source. ..." Oh contrair' ... If the CD player has a 16bit (only) DAC, it is certainly possible that it can't do anything with a 24 bit data stream ... Certain very modern CD players have a DAC that can handle it

Even the dire TDA1543 will play back when faced with 24bit audio. It simple ignores the last 8 bits. That a .wav file will not play back on a CD only player has nothing to do with the dac. It won't play back for the same reason a .pdf or .zip file will not play back. They are not CD-DA compliant.

[lucpes]

Offtopic: CD audio quality has more to do with the way the final mastering is done, check releases from Telarc, MFSL, some DCD's, XRCDs or other 'audiophile' labels. I don't claim that 44.1/16 is enough, but most records do not even reach 12bit resolution due to poor mastering.