FastEddy said:Re: The above boards ... does this include the DAC or just the HDMI breakout chips ??
No, it doesn't include a DAC. It doesn't "breakout" the HDMI either.
It monitors the digital audio information before it gets to the HDMI chips and transmits it outside the DVD player to an external DAC.
" ... It monitors the digital audio information before it gets to the HDMI chips and transmits it outside the DVD player to an external DAC. ..."
Oh Boy! ... a true DAC = squirting the data right outta the disc reader into the digital to analog converter ... You could through away everything inside the box except the power supply and the disc mechanism and its chip set ... Yes? ... (Who need the video when we have higher resolution audio ... )
I intend to take the Gefen box home shortly and see what comes outta that Oppo port. I have a couple of 192K discs and I'll report later
Oh Boy! ... a true DAC = squirting the data right outta the disc reader into the digital to analog converter ... You could through away everything inside the box except the power supply and the disc mechanism and its chip set ... Yes?
... (Who need the video when we have higher resolution audio ... )I intend to take the Gefen box home shortly and see what comes outta that Oppo port. I have a couple of 192K discs and I'll report later
" ...still like a good digital photo ..." (I don't want to break the trust I have established with our suppliers by allowing a very new product be "reversed". I can not in good consciense send pictures .... etc.)
Of significant interest: http://www.siliconimage.com/product...y.aspx?id=1 ... and ... http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=65 (although '9030 is indicated) ... Note that these folks have both v.1.2a and v.1.3 xmit & receive chip sets.
The Report: The DAC in the Oppo 981 is better than the DAC in my Panasonic XR70. Playing a 192K DVD-A through the Oppo HDMI port thru the Gefen HDMI to DVI audio breakout box results in 48K conversion (according to the Panasonic readout) ... playing the Oppo direct thru its DAC's Dolby 5.1 analog ports results in a 98K conversion (according to the Pani) ... and a noticable, superior quality from the Oppo DAC's 6 RCA ports than from the Gefen optical thru the Pani optical. My guess is that the supposedly HDMI 1.1 (?) port on the Oppo is not quite compatible with the 1.2a chips in the Gefen or the Pani TOSLink DAC, where as the Oppo DAC is connected as Rossi intends to connect his circuit ... os some such scenario. ... guess I'm still searching for a truely "universal" player ... OR ... going to need Rossi's DIY board for the Oppo player in order to finally unlock the full spectrum of DVD-A / SACD / et al ...
Of significant interest: http://www.siliconimage.com/product...y.aspx?id=1 ... and ... http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=65 (although '9030 is indicated) ... Note that these folks have both v.1.2a and v.1.3 xmit & receive chip sets.
The Report: The DAC in the Oppo 981 is better than the DAC in my Panasonic XR70. Playing a 192K DVD-A through the Oppo HDMI port thru the Gefen HDMI to DVI audio breakout box results in 48K conversion (according to the Panasonic readout) ... playing the Oppo direct thru its DAC's Dolby 5.1 analog ports results in a 98K conversion (according to the Pani) ... and a noticable, superior quality from the Oppo DAC's 6 RCA ports than from the Gefen optical thru the Pani optical. My guess is that the supposedly HDMI 1.1 (?) port on the Oppo is not quite compatible with the 1.2a chips in the Gefen or the Pani TOSLink DAC, where as the Oppo DAC is connected as Rossi intends to connect his circuit ... os some such scenario.
... guess I'm still searching for a truely "universal" player ... OR ... going to need Rossi's DIY board for the Oppo player in order to finally unlock the full spectrum of DVD-A / SACD / et al ...Hello rossl
We are a small group of friends here in Tokyo that all have bought OPPO DV-981HD. One of us is using it (for audio) with the Assemblage 2.7 DAC and matching SRC, and the rest of us are using it "as is" from the analog outputs for audio (it already sounds impressive). However all of us are using the HDMI outputs for flat panel TV (one with Panasonic Plasma 52" and another with Sony Bravia 32") etc.
Two of our group's members are engineers (I am the "non"), and we would like to join your project and try our own version. We would therefore like to ask you arrange for us to buy one minimum production run of your boards 5 x US$15 = US$75 plus costs and shipping.
We are strictly doing this for our personal enjoyment, and have no commercial interests in doing this. We are also not attempting to break copyright and faithfully buy all our copies of music and movies on CD and DVD.
I have noticed your e-mail is not enabled through the forum, but I may try to mail you through the administrator.
Cheers!
We are a small group of friends here in Tokyo that all have bought OPPO DV-981HD. One of us is using it (for audio) with the Assemblage 2.7 DAC and matching SRC, and the rest of us are using it "as is" from the analog outputs for audio (it already sounds impressive). However all of us are using the HDMI outputs for flat panel TV (one with Panasonic Plasma 52" and another with Sony Bravia 32") etc.
Two of our group's members are engineers (I am the "non"), and we would like to join your project and try our own version. We would therefore like to ask you arrange for us to buy one minimum production run of your boards 5 x US$15 = US$75 plus costs and shipping.
We are strictly doing this for our personal enjoyment, and have no commercial interests in doing this. We are also not attempting to break copyright and faithfully buy all our copies of music and movies on CD and DVD.
I have noticed your e-mail is not enabled through the forum, but I may try to mail you through the administrator.
Cheers!
elecon: " ... the rest of us are using [the Oppo 981] "as is" from the analog outputs for audio (it already sounds impressive). ... All ... are using the HDMI outputs for flat panel TV ..."
This is my setup as well.
The Oppo 981 analog output is as good as it gets out of the Oppo series so far. The Oppo digital (coaxial & optical) port and / or the HDMI 1.x? port does not output better than 24 bit / 48K, digitally ...
The Oppo digital to analog converter (the built in DAC) is capable of 24 bit 192K out through the analog Dolby 5.1 ports (6 RCA ports), but it has lots of room for improvement. I believe that this is what Rossi is addressing = by bypassing the Oppo's HDMI v. 1.x? chip set and adding his own design (his board) to the Oppo units = thus getting that "full load", the 24bit / 192k audio stream out of the transport mechanism and into a better digital output ...
The use of the Gefen HDMI "audio breakout box" ( http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3939 ) does not improve on this arrangement as it connects to the existing Oppo HDMI 1.x? connection. The Geffen HDMI "audio breakout box" COULD do the job on a number of other DVD-A / SACD players if they are equipped with HDMI v. 1.2a or better chips ... but, alas, not this version of the Oppo players. ...
Thus, I am with you on a request for a copy of Rossi's circuit boards, however, because of my old tired eyesight, I will need yo have my board stuffed with parts prior to use ...
Rossi: you can add my request to elecon's order as well, hopefully, with the parts installed, especially the surface mounted parts ... Is possible ?? I'll pay ...
This is my setup as well.
The Oppo 981 analog output is as good as it gets out of the Oppo series so far. The Oppo digital (coaxial & optical) port and / or the HDMI 1.x? port does not output better than 24 bit / 48K, digitally ...
The Oppo digital to analog converter (the built in DAC) is capable of 24 bit 192K out through the analog Dolby 5.1 ports (6 RCA ports), but it has lots of room for improvement. I believe that this is what Rossi is addressing = by bypassing the Oppo's HDMI v. 1.x? chip set and adding his own design (his board) to the Oppo units = thus getting that "full load", the 24bit / 192k audio stream out of the transport mechanism and into a better digital output ... The use of the Gefen HDMI "audio breakout box" ( http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3939 ) does not improve on this arrangement as it connects to the existing Oppo HDMI 1.x? connection. The Geffen HDMI "audio breakout box" COULD do the job on a number of other DVD-A / SACD players if they are equipped with HDMI v. 1.2a or better chips ... but, alas, not this version of the Oppo players. ...
Thus, I am with you on a request for a copy of Rossi's circuit boards, however, because of my old tired eyesight, I will need yo have my board stuffed with parts prior to use ...
Rossi: you can add my request to elecon's order as well, hopefully, with the parts installed, especially the surface mounted parts ... Is possible ?? I'll pay ...
elecon said:
OK, I can provide others with boards and parts lists and documents. No problem as long as it is for DIY experimenting.
I would like to have the engineers review the design, report your results and give some feedback and advise.
I still haven't had time to build and install the new version and I want to make sure it works as intended before we order another run of boards.
Hello rossl and FastEddy
Thanks for your replies. So, we will patiently wait for the availlability for our 5 x PCB (we are actually 4 in our group, but would also like to keep a spare one just in case :-D). We are more than capable of doing our own stuffing (and hope to finish before Thanksgiving :-D).
Anyone know the parts number for the 27Mc crystal for the Oppo itself?
Cheers!
Thanks for your replies. So, we will patiently wait for the availlability for our 5 x PCB (we are actually 4 in our group, but would also like to keep a spare one just in case :-D). We are more than capable of doing our own stuffing (and hope to finish before Thanksgiving :-D).
Anyone know the parts number for the 27Mc crystal for the Oppo itself?
Cheers!
Why we want this:
Rossi in early post on this thread: " ... Widespread use of this mod may actually boost the market for SACD and DVD-Audio. ..."
We are all in favor of that. "CDs suck ..." - Bob Dylan, refering to the abismule state of current CD production values ("crank it up, it'll sell more ...") and the poor quality of 16 bit / 44k data sources, compared to 24 bit / 48K video sound track or 88K or 96K or 192K or 384K audio, etc.
Rossi in early post on this thread: " ... Widespread use of this mod may actually boost the market for SACD and DVD-Audio. ..."
We are all in favor of that. "CDs suck ..." - Bob Dylan, refering to the abismule state of current CD production values ("crank it up, it'll sell more ...") and the poor quality of 16 bit / 44k data sources, compared to 24 bit / 48K video sound track or 88K or 96K or 192K or 384K audio, etc.
I have been approached by a company interested in a "pure HDMI audio breakout" box for a wide market. (Similar to that described previously in this thread.)
Specs. would be for the box to reside on a long extension HDMI cable, just ahead of an HDMI display (monitor or TV) = HDMI in, HDMI out and an audio "tap" ... to conform to v. 1.2a with ability for backward compatibility to v.1.1 or v. 1.0. This should have a quality built in DAC with RCA output terminals for stereo and 6-port Dolby 5.1 = total 8 RCA ports. Self power should be from a "standard universal" 100 to 240 VAC, two prong wall wart brick with 12 VDC center positive connection of less than 15 watts. (I suppose the PS filter board in the box could have DC to DC converters for +/0/- 12 VDC internally for the DAC circuit.) The watch word is quality of output, not price or cost of manufacturing.
Anyway, if anyone is working on some such gadget, please let me know ...
... Mecinary announcement: I'm in this business, and we do reward the efforts of others.
Specs. would be for the box to reside on a long extension HDMI cable, just ahead of an HDMI display (monitor or TV) = HDMI in, HDMI out and an audio "tap" ... to conform to v. 1.2a with ability for backward compatibility to v.1.1 or v. 1.0. This should have a quality built in DAC with RCA output terminals for stereo and 6-port Dolby 5.1 = total 8 RCA ports. Self power should be from a "standard universal" 100 to 240 VAC, two prong wall wart brick with 12 VDC center positive connection of less than 15 watts. (I suppose the PS filter board in the box could have DC to DC converters for +/0/- 12 VDC internally for the DAC circuit.) The watch word is quality of output, not price or cost of manufacturing.
Anyway, if anyone is working on some such gadget, please let me know ...
... Mecinary announcement: I'm in this business, and we do reward the efforts of others.
FastEddy said:
That sounds like a fun project. I would like to do it, but I'm working 60 hours a week right now.
Does this company do any HDMI products already? I have searched the internet for Silicon Image datasheets. Also looked for Gennum datasheets. It seems like you can't even look at a HDMI chip datasheet unless you have signed a pile of non-disclosure agreements and legal papers.
If this "big company" has already done a HDMI pass-through design, it would be much simpler to just add the audio DAC onto that design.
Busyx2 said:
I had messaging turned off in my user control panel. I turned it back on. I don't remember why I had it turned off.
Anyone who wants a board, please let me know what DAC you will be using it with, what DVD player you will be modding, and your skill level at soldering SMT parts.
I was able to get some time this weekend to start building up two boards. I am hoping to get these installed in two Oppos by next weekend.
" ... you can't even look at a HDMI chip datasheet unless you have signed a pile of non-disclosure agreements ..."
It might be done by just tapping one or three of the data lines without the whole HDMI chip ... Looking for that little ol' !2S data ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HDMI_Connector_Pinout.svg ... and just use a pair of female connectors passed through the box with careful attention to the impedence matching so as not to interfer with the cabling ... No ?
Anyone know which pin(s) has the PCM info ??
" Audio sample rates: 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz, 192 kHz. / Audio channels: up to 8. / Audio streams: any IEC61937-compliant stream, including high bitrate (lossless) streams. "
The TDMS data are three shielded pairs and a TDMS clock ... looks like one of 'em ... or is it all three?
It might be done by just tapping one or three of the data lines without the whole HDMI chip ... Looking for that little ol' !2S data ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HDMI_Connector_Pinout.svg ... and just use a pair of female connectors passed through the box with careful attention to the impedence matching so as not to interfer with the cabling ... No ?
Anyone know which pin(s) has the PCM info ??
" Audio sample rates: 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz, 192 kHz. / Audio channels: up to 8. / Audio streams: any IEC61937-compliant stream, including high bitrate (lossless) streams. "
The TDMS data are three shielded pairs and a TDMS clock ... looks like one of 'em ... or is it all three?
Hi,
I will tend to be interested to use it on an Oppo DV970HD, because it's cheaper. Otherwise, I can also put it on DV981HD. To Rossl: I still couldn't e-mail or PM you, perhaps you can send me an e-mail. I can offer to stuff the SMT components on the boards for you, or, other interesting exchange is possible.
I will tend to be interested to use it on an Oppo DV970HD, because it's cheaper. Otherwise, I can also put it on DV981HD. To Rossl: I still couldn't e-mail or PM you, perhaps you can send me an e-mail. I can offer to stuff the SMT components on the boards for you, or, other interesting exchange is possible.
FastEddy said:
. You didn't really think they'd make it that easy? On any of the channels along with the video data, if present, in an encrypted serial datastream, hence the need to decrypt and demultiplex.
The three channels are just serial links. The payload varies with the data type.
What say you to a groupbuy of HDCP keys ? $15K for the license and a $1K per key with a MOQ of 10K.
" ... You didn't really think they'd make it that easy?
quote: Anyone know which pin(s) has the PCM info ??
" ... On any of the channels along with the video data, if present, in an encrypted serial datastream, hence the need to decrypt and demultiplex. ..."
I'm glad you explaned this to me. For a moment there I thought it might be possible to work with HDMI is a straight forward fashion, sans incrypt / decrypt complications. I guess the best way to deal with this is to advise Sony that we intend to sue for putting unwanted garbage on our systems ...
I mean, no telling what kind on manipulative software is inside the incryption = could be they are trying to program us to vote their way in the next election ... or offer our daughters up for immoral porpuses ... or, heaven forbid, put gunk inside of our digital systems and make us pay for the privilage ...
I would guess there might be an underground market for HDMI decryption technology = probably make more from the disemination and distribution of that than one would ever make from accessory manufacture ...
" ... a groupbuy of HDCP keys ? $15K for the license ..." I would bet that an unincrypted "license" would cost a whole lot less ... got a source for HDMI chips in Hong Kong??
I don't mind paying for and rewarding the authors of story and song for their efforts = honoring copyrights and patents, etc. and et al ... but I hate to pay for the extra middle management expenses stacked in on top of these otherwise reasonable costs ...
quote: Anyone know which pin(s) has the PCM info ??
" ... On any of the channels along with the video data, if present, in an encrypted serial datastream, hence the need to decrypt and demultiplex. ..."
I'm glad you explaned this to me. For a moment there I thought it might be possible to work with HDMI is a straight forward fashion, sans incrypt / decrypt complications. I guess the best way to deal with this is to advise Sony that we intend to sue for putting unwanted garbage on our systems ...
I mean, no telling what kind on manipulative software is inside the incryption = could be they are trying to program us to vote their way in the next election ... or offer our daughters up for immoral porpuses ... or, heaven forbid, put gunk inside of our digital systems and make us pay for the privilage ...
I would guess there might be an underground market for HDMI decryption technology = probably make more from the disemination and distribution of that than one would ever make from accessory manufacture ...
" ... a groupbuy of HDCP keys ? $15K for the license ..." I would bet that an unincrypted "license" would cost a whole lot less ... got a source for HDMI chips in Hong Kong??
I don't mind paying for and rewarding the authors of story and song for their efforts = honoring copyrights and patents, etc. and et al ... but I hate to pay for the extra middle management expenses stacked in on top of these otherwise reasonable costs ...
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