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Old 29th December 2002, 01:36 PM   #31
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Default Learning The Hard Way......

"the definition of "experience" is 'having made so many mistakes that there are few left to make'.
I have made quite a few in my time, but at least I have tried a lot of things and have learned a quite a bit along the way!"


I have never made any myself, of course.

Eric, The All Knowing.
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Old 30th December 2002, 03:08 AM   #32
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Default I STAND WITH BOB.

Hello ,

First of all Halojoy...pay some respect and get a life please?

Bob,

Your experiences on the topic are frighteningly close to mine....a lifetime dedication to the reproduction of music.

Whoever thinks CD is perfect,please think again...it needs at least as much attention to vibration control as a TT and has a lot more problems to boot.

Other than that there are are different other matters that need attention...
Ever wondered what it is you don't like about CDs?

Vibrations are just a minor problem,believe me...

Cheers,
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Old 30th December 2002, 04:40 AM   #33
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Default Re: I STAND WITH BOB.

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
Ever wondered what it is you don't like about CDs?
Everytime i think about this, i think about the big Monty Python boot coming down to squah the music with spurei (sp) going everywhere (because it is unlikely that the Nyquist requirements are satisfied)...

Click the image to open in full size.

dave
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Old 5th January 2003, 12:32 PM   #34
halojoy is offline halojoy  Sweden
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Default Anyone with a scientific Approach?

Quote:
Originally posted by halojoy
Must be quite easy to test, if laser reading is changed
for better or worse.
Make a run without damping, record the digital signal.
Same with dampening, record the digital signal.

Use your PC to compare the signals.
No problem with todays digital in/out connections
soundcards and modern computer techniques.

The problem, why this is NOT done,
is probably that those people believing in benefits
of dampening are a bit afraid of the results.

They have a slight feeling that there is no difference!
-------------------------------------------------

/halo - does believe in fact - not hypothesis -
- and also believe in Jesus, The Man who Saves
I really thought someone would have some facts to present
based on research.
Or that someone in this thread was willing to do some tests
to prove the effect of mechanical dampening.

If there is an effect, then it should be possible to show
its existens.

------------------------------

By the answers, I can not find anything that contradict
my assumption:

The problem, why this is NOT done,
is probably that those people believing in benefits
of dampening are a bit afraid of the results.

They have a slight feeling that there is no difference!


The scientific minded people are quite busy
about the "Complex Emitter Follower".
Probably why they are not engaged in this thread.
Or they maybe find this subject somewhat uninteresting.

/halo
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Old 5th January 2003, 12:50 PM   #35
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You are either doing a little trolling or you have no idea about testing for microphonic output on an electronic circuit.

PS: You tap it whilst taking the trace.

CDP transport and electronics benefit from damping period.

Now go away and try it.

PS, if you are neither a troll or ignorant - read this and look at the generic specifications; then question in a really clever logical way why damping might help this complex arrangement. and what the roll of error correction and microphonics might play.

http://www.digitalcentury.com/encycl.../cdplayer.html

Gary Lawson SEP B.Eng Hons
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Old 5th January 2003, 01:04 PM   #36
Bobken is offline Bobken  United Kingdom
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Halojoy,

It may seem arrogant to quote from an earlier post of mine, but I can do no better!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bobken

"I would be very interested to hear further from you on this subject if and when you have some worthwhile feedback, based on practical experience, to add to this thread".

Regards, [/B]
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Old 6th January 2003, 06:37 PM   #37
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Default Re: Must be quite easy to test

Quote:
Originally posted by halojoy
Must be quite easy to test, if laser reading is changed for better or worse. Make a run without damping, record the digital signal. Same with dampening, record the digital signal.

Use your PC to compare the signals. No problem with todays digital in/out connections soundcards and modern computer techniques.
Such comparisons have been done in the past, not with damping mods in particular, but with other variables. More often than not, the data is found to be bit-identical. But this means nothing. You have to understand that musical data is not the same as computer data. With digital music, the timing of the bits is just as important as the value of the bits. Minute amount of jitter are audible. When you consider things in the time domain, digital components suddenly seem to have much in common with analogue.
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Old 6th January 2003, 06:58 PM   #38
dorkus is offline dorkus  United States
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yes, the primary difference between analog and digital systems is the MANNER in which external inputs (vibration, power supply fluctuations, etc.) modulate the output and thus what type of distortion they produce. there is no question however that both systems are susceptible to such interference.
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Old 6th January 2003, 08:13 PM   #39
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Another scenerio where damping could be seen to benefit is: without damping we get more vibration on the disk making the laser mechanism work harder to track the disk. This causes more noise and load in the power-supply degrading the analog section of the player.

You will also note that all the high end players pay particular attention to damping. The Linn CD-12 for instance has a chassis milled out of a solid billet of aluminum into a shape that is intended to immunize it from external vibrations.

dave
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Old 7th January 2003, 02:42 AM   #40
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Default I'll Say It Again.......

Another scenerio where damping could be seen to benefit is: without damping we get more vibration on the disk making the laser mechanism work harder to track the disk. This causes more noise and load in the power-supply degrading the analog section of the player.

Yup, thats what I said earlier on .
Additionally, digital power supply fluctuation causes modulation of the analogue waveform datastream slicer (jitter), modulation of the clock oscillator (jitter) and modulation of timings in the DSP chip.
Seperated power supplies for servo, digital and analogue audio stages pays big benefits.
Mechanical damping helps, but the electronics require attention also.

Eric.
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