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Old 22nd December 2002, 12:44 PM   #1
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Default DENON Alpha processing/DCD-1015

Hello,
I would like to hear any opinions...well, from what
saw on http://denon.jp/europe/faq_alp.html I assume
it's a kind of digital filter

The gist of the matter is...I hava an opportunity to buy
DCD-1015 for a good price and wonder whether this
player is worth tweaking. I was looking for a cd that I could
modify (my Micromega Stage went away ) and wonder
whether is there any sense in using Denon's ALPHA Procesor...
...well, the output stream is 20bit/8fs, so maybe I could
get better DAC's (there's a Burr Brown PCM 61 P inside), clock,
etc etc.

What DAC replacements would be ok?
Possibly AD1861N would be a direct replacement, but
I feel there are better choices.

I also saw that Audio Note CD2 is based on DCD-1015, so maybe it's
really worth a try?

Any suggestions welcome

Thanks,

Spherion
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Old 22nd December 2002, 06:58 PM   #2
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Default Re: DENON Alpha processing/DCD-1015

Hi, I don't know about that alpha processing by DENON, but I think this is commercial trick, as many others. I just know NPC make the great digita filters, and the multibit DAC's are the better ones! Nevertheless you can try the sigma-delta ones - design with them is much more cheaper, and an ease of use! Read Andrea Cuiffolly for more. I've made an sigma-delta DAC w. AD's AD1892 receiver/rate converter and the AD1852 DAC. Output filter is simple, I use OPA2134 for the purpose. The sound is great, according to me! Sigma-delta's are more sensitive to clock jitter, so u should take care there. Use the best design for this and a good noise-free PS for it!
For the DAC, u can try the AD1862JN or the great PCM63P-K, which is said to be one of the best DAC's in the world. Be carefull, with these expensive DAC's use a very-well considered output stage, and type of OPAMP if u use one! I may try different circuits for this, but yet I can't find some digital filter for my AD1862JN's
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Old 22nd December 2002, 07:14 PM   #3
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Yep, it might be a commercial trick, i'll probably get that denon,
even for a transport, because of the low price (I need a player
NOW because I sold my former cd Micromega).

Well, I considered AD DAC's. In the next two weeks I am going to
order some. Actually, I have on my shotrlist:
AD1853
BB1704
They're different, but well, I've heard MarkLevinson with 1853
and it was simply marvellous for me.

How is the sound of you DAC, in comparioson with classic (R2R)
DACs?
Do you think PCM63P based dac would sound better or just different?

Regards,

Spherion
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Old 22nd December 2002, 07:27 PM   #4
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Default Reply

So, I have't heard lots of digitall equipment, but my DAC beats just everything with ease. Note this is some basic design, with some special care taken for the supply for the clock generator and jitter reducer in mind of the AD1892.
Again, designing with Sigma-Delta's is simple. The AD1853 has a current output, which you should consider! Very fast OPAMPS or some exotic schematic may be needed - the same as for the Multibit DAC's. I haven't tryed any! But the AD1852 is fine enough for now - they use it in some top-of-the-line commercial products.
My system consists of an Excellent/Perfect power amp /DIY/ and mid-class Speakers, so small differences can not be encoutered. But the difference between the PCM61, PCM67 designs and mine were clearly audible! Maybe different sound from mine, who knows! The other ones /not the mine/ sounded a little like MP3 compared to the mine!
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Old 22nd December 2002, 07:38 PM   #5
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Thanks for info!
As for the output stage, am I going to use AD825 or discrete buffer.

Regards,

Spherion
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Old 26th December 2002, 05:33 AM   #6
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Unhappy AL24?

It looks really like a dither processing......
How do u think......
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Old 26th December 2002, 05:38 AM   #7
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Yeah, finally, after some reading about it I think it's kind of a dither. I decided not to go for DCD-1015 and going to buy
something else for a transport

Regards,

Spherion
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Old 26th December 2002, 08:04 AM   #8
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I got the DCD-835 for half-price recently..

If the DCD-1015 is anything like the DCD-835 - it will be one hell of a player...
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Old 26th December 2002, 08:35 AM   #9
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Default DACs

Spherion, you may try everything - from upgrading the CD player itself to obtain a quality sound at the line level input to making an external DAC /which is my case/
I don't know which should be more cost-effective, but probably you know what do you want to try first! THe things you should have are a clean jitter-free clock generator and a good DAC, and a jitter filter /i.e. a sample rate converter, see AD1892, AD1895 and AD1896 from AD, and others from BB and Crystal/ I will not reccomend you to use Sigma-Deltas at Fs more than, say, 48 kHz. At higher freq these DAC's internal digital filters chars go worse due to lowering the their order, I suppose /see AD1852 datasheet/ Many digital audio you maj find from Andrea Cuiffolly
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/
He says a good transport from Philips is the CDM12. I saw a CDM12.4 /or 12.1/ and it was not that good to me. It was in a Marantz CD /maybe some 63 model??/ and the laser was gone.
In a commercial CD, there is a lot to upgrade in the analog stage and the Power supply, and these are cheap /up to $10/ upgrades, that do make the sound better. Main things are electrolitycs at the signal path, high output impedance, low-cost Opamps like uPC4560, 4570, TL072 and so, and cheap Power Supply; also inside-IC clock generator; and some others. I like the designs of Sony /in the under $180 area/ and there a lot can be done, having a good start with functionallity and outlook.
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Old 26th December 2002, 12:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Re: DENON Alpha processing/DCD-1015

---> Originally posted by machinow
" Hi, I don't know about that alpha processing by DENON, but I think this is commercial trick, as many others. I just know NPC make the great digita filters, and the multibit DAC's are the better ones!..."

Alpha Processing chip used by DENON ... SM5845 (low price CD)
commercial trick ? -maybe yes if You can made better digital filter without energy dispersion.
DENON use multibit (classic not multibit delta-sigma) DAC's (except DCD335 - PCM1716 and low priced DA solutions).

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