i bought this cd player last week and i am very impressed with it
i was expceting a pile of dung. but when i took the lid off i noticed it was well designed, much better than the cd 4 i used to own
does any body have any experience with this player i would love to do some diy with it i have pics i can send
i was expceting a pile of dung. but when i took the lid off i noticed it was well designed, much better than the cd 4 i used to own
does any body have any experience with this player i would love to do some diy with it i have pics i can send
Oh yes indeed my friend 
It is surely an excellent player (except for the display).
I have done all the usual mods;
Black gates, shielded, mains lead, cabinet damping, Sorbothane feet, Audiocom regulators for the clock and digital sections, Quality Gold/Teflon RCA sockets, 75 Ohm resistor termination on digital out, Switch to disable display lights etc.
Still more to do though.
Did you know that this player was designed by John Westlake from Pink Triangle who posts on this forum when he can find the time? It's one of his favourite designs for Cambridge audio alongside the Isomagic Dac.
Well I have to say that it sounds pretty fanflippintastic in stock form but us DIY'ers are never satisfied.
I'm sure that you noticed that the board uses surface mount components making it (for me) a nightmare to consider changing opamps etc. I will one day but, right now, it scares me to risk my player. Also the ribbon cable that connects the laser is very delicate and I've knackered a few in the pursuit of audio nirvana. If anyone knows how to release the ribbon without stressing it then please contact me.
I am considering adding this tube buffer at the moment
http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=81
There is plenty of space inside the case. I'm thinking that it may be easier for me to use this as an output instead of trying different opamps. Perhaps I could just bypass the output devices and avoid soldering surface mount stuff alltogether?
I'm also going to try a simple mod to dim the display lights in an effort to make it readable from more than 6 feet away.
Another important thing is the remote control. The stock remote that I got with the unit has only basic functions (Yours may be different). I have recently purchased a Cambridge Audio SRC-01 which means that I can now access programming, search and display functionality that was previously unavailable to me. It will work with any philips based CD remote.
Congratulations on a great choice and welcome to the forum.
It is surely an excellent player (except for the display).
I have done all the usual mods;
Black gates, shielded, mains lead, cabinet damping, Sorbothane feet, Audiocom regulators for the clock and digital sections, Quality Gold/Teflon RCA sockets, 75 Ohm resistor termination on digital out, Switch to disable display lights etc.
Still more to do though.
Did you know that this player was designed by John Westlake from Pink Triangle who posts on this forum when he can find the time? It's one of his favourite designs for Cambridge audio alongside the Isomagic Dac.
Well I have to say that it sounds pretty fanflippintastic in stock form but us DIY'ers are never satisfied.
I'm sure that you noticed that the board uses surface mount components making it (for me) a nightmare to consider changing opamps etc. I will one day but, right now, it scares me to risk my player. Also the ribbon cable that connects the laser is very delicate and I've knackered a few in the pursuit of audio nirvana. If anyone knows how to release the ribbon without stressing it then please contact me.
I am considering adding this tube buffer at the moment
http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=81
There is plenty of space inside the case. I'm thinking that it may be easier for me to use this as an output instead of trying different opamps. Perhaps I could just bypass the output devices and avoid soldering surface mount stuff alltogether?
I'm also going to try a simple mod to dim the display lights in an effort to make it readable from more than 6 feet away.
Another important thing is the remote control. The stock remote that I got with the unit has only basic functions (Yours may be different). I have recently purchased a Cambridge Audio SRC-01 which means that I can now access programming, search and display functionality that was previously unavailable to me. It will work with any philips based CD remote.
Congratulations on a great choice and welcome to the forum.
cd 4se
hi thanks for the info and welcome, do you have any pics of yours modified i would love to copy it, i am used to cd players that cost £2500 now i can not afford that sort of money any more. i would love to see if i could get this player close to a really hi end player. have you compered it to any exspencive players with the mods i have have noticed 2 x + 5 volts 7805 at the bottom of the cd player i think they power the dacs do you know which one power's the clock is it a 7805 in between to plus and minus regs at the back as thee is 5 all together i would be very greatful for your help if it is not to much trouble
hi thanks for the info and welcome, do you have any pics of yours modified i would love to copy it, i am used to cd players that cost £2500 now i can not afford that sort of money any more. i would love to see if i could get this player close to a really hi end player. have you compered it to any exspencive players with the mods i have have noticed 2 x + 5 volts 7805 at the bottom of the cd player i think they power the dacs do you know which one power's the clock is it a 7805 in between to plus and minus regs at the back as thee is 5 all together i would be very greatful for your help if it is not to much trouble
cd4se
hi the lead from the laser if held firm and lift up vertical no side ward movements at all, the lead will be fine i have had it off a few times. the link you sent me was very interesting
i know what you mean as this lead and the laser has to come off to get at the board i am really looking forward to your reply
hi the lead from the laser if held firm and lift up vertical no side ward movements at all, the lead will be fine i have had it off a few times. the link you sent me was very interesting
i know what you mean as this lead and the laser has to come off to get at the board i am really looking forward to your reply
Re: cd 4se
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
/sreten.
whats gan on said:......i would love to see if i could get this player close to a really hi end player.....
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
/sreten.Re: Re: cd 4se
bye for now i am off to compare it
one more thing is the transformer any good as it is not a toroidal transformersreten said:
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
bye for now i am off to compare it
Re: Re: Re: cd 4se
Hi Sreten. I'll definitely be looking into this one. A cheap tweak is a good tweak. Have you done any of these things to yours?
Torroids have their own disadvantages and I reckon the stock transformer looks quite beefy enough for the job. If anything I may consider completely seperate powersupliies for the digital and analog sections but I have to (reluctantly) agree with Sreten.Mods should be done only after careful consideration. The mods that I have added so far have been 'Like for like' capacitor and regulator mods. To be honest I'm not exactly sure what difference they have made. At the time I was very pleased but I was also very eager to believe that I was helping things. All I can say with any certainty is that I don't think I have made it worse!!
The obvious thing to do to most players is to add a quality clock but I remember reading that the CD4SE has a very good clock circuit and that changing the clock could therefore be detrimental.
I would also like to say that the ONLY reason that I would consider adding the valve output is to remove some harshness from my system. (yes, I know it is a sticking plaster solution) I would at first use as a stand alone buffer to test and then consider substituting the outputs for this. If I didn't have this problem with MY system then I would be more than happy to stop the modding.
My recommendations to you are to first try one or both of these things;
(a) Add some bitumen damping to the case and transport but don't foul the mechanism.
(b) Consider swapping the captive mains lead for a good quality shielded one.
Safety alert Just make sure you know what you are doing.
These are easy and cheap first tweaks and are unlikely to damage the player.
I'd be interested to hear your opinions on the results.
sreten said:
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
Hi Sreten. I'll definitely be looking into this one. A cheap tweak is a good tweak. Have you done any of these things to yours?
whats gan on said:
Torroids have their own disadvantages and I reckon the stock transformer looks quite beefy enough for the job. If anything I may consider completely seperate powersupliies for the digital and analog sections but I have to (reluctantly) agree with Sreten.Mods should be done only after careful consideration. The mods that I have added so far have been 'Like for like' capacitor and regulator mods. To be honest I'm not exactly sure what difference they have made. At the time I was very pleased but I was also very eager to believe that I was helping things. All I can say with any certainty is that I don't think I have made it worse!!
The obvious thing to do to most players is to add a quality clock but I remember reading that the CD4SE has a very good clock circuit and that changing the clock could therefore be detrimental.
I would also like to say that the ONLY reason that I would consider adding the valve output is to remove some harshness from my system. (yes, I know it is a sticking plaster solution) I would at first use as a stand alone buffer to test and then consider substituting the outputs for this. If I didn't have this problem with MY system then I would be more than happy to stop the modding.
My recommendations to you are to first try one or both of these things;
(a) Add some bitumen damping to the case and transport but don't foul the mechanism.
(b) Consider swapping the captive mains lead for a good quality shielded one.
Safety alert Just make sure you know what you are doing. These are easy and cheap first tweaks and are unlikely to damage the player.
I'd be interested to hear your opinions on the results.
Here's an old picture from May this year showing the board with Audiocom super regs on the bottom for the Digital sections.
At the top of the picture just out of view (attached to the brown wires) is another Audiocom regulator feeding the clock circuit. (Can't remember the name but it was the best one they sold at the time.)
You can also see the Black Gate caps. I messed up a bit here I think. From memory I increased from 2200uF to 3300 but they are just a little too wide and just about touch the sides of the transport mech which I'm sure cannot be a good thing. Also they are now standing off the board more than I would like so I will have to sort this out sometime soon.
You can also see the (Pink) Elna cap that I parallelled with the original on the transport side. This seems to fit neatly under the transport mech but I doubt it has any sonic benefits but who knows?
And the Bitumen damping and the extra copper shielding on the base. Once again YMMV.
At the top of the picture just out of view (attached to the brown wires) is another Audiocom regulator feeding the clock circuit. (Can't remember the name but it was the best one they sold at the time.)
You can also see the Black Gate caps. I messed up a bit here I think. From memory I increased from 2200uF to 3300 but they are just a little too wide and just about touch the sides of the transport mech which I'm sure cannot be a good thing. Also they are now standing off the board more than I would like so I will have to sort this out sometime soon.
You can also see the (Pink) Elna cap that I parallelled with the original on the transport side. This seems to fit neatly under the transport mech but I doubt it has any sonic benefits but who knows?
And the Bitumen damping and the extra copper shielding on the base. Once again YMMV.
Attachments
cd 4se kills marantz with clock and audio upgrades
hi i am back with the cd 4se and the cambridge is a much better cd player, though the marantz is a very clean sound which sounds thin compared to the cd4se the vocals are fuller warmer instruments sound very real i must say for £15 the cd 4se is a megga bargain. cheaper than a trichord clock 2, i must admit i would like a little of what the marantz offers which is treble but if i was to lose the sound it has now
i do not think i would risk killing its sound i have thought of running the clock from a 12 volt motor bike battery. in the past i had a qed digit just giving the opamp its own power was very big upgrade i reckon super regs on the AD711 opamps should be very good upgrade any one have any thoughts on this
hi i am back with the cd 4se and the cambridge is a much better cd player, though the marantz is a very clean sound which sounds thin compared to the cd4se the vocals are fuller warmer instruments sound very real i must say for £15 the cd 4se is a megga bargain. cheaper than a trichord clock 2, i must admit i would like a little of what the marantz offers which is treble but if i was to lose the sound it has now
i do not think i would risk killing its sound i have thought of running the clock from a 12 volt motor bike battery. in the past i had a qed digit just giving the opamp its own power was very big upgrade i reckon super regs on the AD711 opamps should be very good upgrade any one have any thoughts on this
Re: Re: cd 4se
It's very interesting to hear that the CD4SE beat the Marantz in all but treble. I suspect that this could be system dependent?
In my system I have;
CD4SE ----> Cyrus2 & PSX ---->Tannoy 611 Mk1
The speakers and amp are both known for their forward treble so it is therefore difficult for me to comment. On lesser systems I have found the Cambridge a little too warm and lacking detail but with my kit I have too much of the very highest treble.
I'm sure I'll get it sorted soon.
I think a better supply for the opamps would be wise but remember that there are 4 regs to replace for the analogue section. This is the reason that I have tackled the clock and digital sections first!
I think a battery supply for the clock would be good but is it really 12 Volts? I can't remember right now or were you suggesting regulation afterwards? Please forgive my ignorance.
Sreten, Could you advise on removing the coupling caps. Is it just a case of removing the blue Philips cap nearest to where the output leaves the board? I'm going to have a look later this evening and try to work it out for myself but I'd feel alot more comfortable with your advice onboard. I suppose I should then check for DC at the output and also that my amp has coupling caps at the input.
It's very interesting to hear that the CD4SE beat the Marantz in all but treble. I suspect that this could be system dependent?
In my system I have;
CD4SE ----> Cyrus2 & PSX ---->Tannoy 611 Mk1
The speakers and amp are both known for their forward treble so it is therefore difficult for me to comment. On lesser systems I have found the Cambridge a little too warm and lacking detail but with my kit I have too much of the very highest treble.
I'm sure I'll get it sorted soon. I think a better supply for the opamps would be wise but remember that there are 4 regs to replace for the analogue section. This is the reason that I have tackled the clock and digital sections first!
I think a battery supply for the clock would be good but is it really 12 Volts? I can't remember right now or were you suggesting regulation afterwards? Please forgive my ignorance.
sreten said:
Hi,
I've got one. It allready is. If it sounds good in your system leave it
pretty much well alone except possibly for the coupling capacitors.
Which should also be checked at the amplifier end and if your going to
be a purist about it one set of coupling capacitors shouild be removed.
Sreten, Could you advise on removing the coupling caps. Is it just a case of removing the blue Philips cap nearest to where the output leaves the board? I'm going to have a look later this evening and try to work it out for myself but I'd feel alot more comfortable with your advice onboard. I suppose I should then check for DC at the output and also that my amp has coupling caps at the input.
cd4 se
the cd 4 was on tested on a Affordable Valve Company class a amp castle harlechs with a very good replacement vifa tweeter used in AE1 MK 3 i would say on first listening the marantz was a more detailed player but the instruments had no body at the end of the day i have heard a musical fidelity cd pre and it was very much like the cd4se the tannoy 611 are sweet sounding i never found them bright or harsh good bass mind
the cd 4 was on tested on a Affordable Valve Company class a amp castle harlechs with a very good replacement vifa tweeter used in AE1 MK 3 i would say on first listening the marantz was a more detailed player but the instruments had no body at the end of the day i have heard a musical fidelity cd pre and it was very much like the cd4se the tannoy 611 are sweet sounding i never found them bright or harsh good bass mind
Attachments
Hi, whats gan on.
I have four CD4SE CD players!
(Yes, I am mad! )
I have not modded any of them, although I did add some damping material and new feet to one of them. I know that is not really electrical DIY as such, but it is as far as I can go in my situation.
I know this may sound clichéd and yet more ‘hi-fi speak’, but it is such an unusual sounding player – I’ve never heard anything like it.
Lovely machine. And John is very helpful.
To think this machine cost around £150-£200 a decade or so ago is mind boggling. It can be found on eBay for as little as £20 sometimes because many do not realise it is such a find.
Does anyone know of particularly good amps to go with this player? It sounds good with some Cambridge Audio models (A3i, etc.), as well as some Arcam (Alpha 6 Plus), which I did not think would sound good at first. Goes really well with the Arcam units I have, but I think it is best with the Cambridge Audio A3i.
Different cables, to me, do not seem to make much difference with this unit, although Canare cable seems to be particularly good with this unit. I really love the Cambridge Audio Pacific interconnects used inside!
Regards,
Carl
I have four CD4SE CD players!
(Yes, I am mad! )I have not modded any of them, although I did add some damping material and new feet to one of them. I know that is not really electrical DIY as such, but it is as far as I can go in my situation.
I know this may sound clichéd and yet more ‘hi-fi speak’, but it is such an unusual sounding player – I’ve never heard anything like it.
Lovely machine. And John is very helpful.
To think this machine cost around £150-£200 a decade or so ago is mind boggling. It can be found on eBay for as little as £20 sometimes because many do not realise it is such a find.
Does anyone know of particularly good amps to go with this player? It sounds good with some Cambridge Audio models (A3i, etc.), as well as some Arcam (Alpha 6 Plus), which I did not think would sound good at first. Goes really well with the Arcam units I have, but I think it is best with the Cambridge Audio A3i.
Different cables, to me, do not seem to make much difference with this unit, although Canare cable seems to be particularly good with this unit. I really love the Cambridge Audio Pacific interconnects used inside!
Regards,
Carl
cd 4se
wow four players mind you i see why to be honest mate i would save up and buy a very good amp that cost over a grand new or much more. the amp is the heart of any good system, but you will pay a lot less used .or try the amazing sonic t amp in the modified form. it will cost you about £100 the amp is the heart of any good system i used a t amp in the past very good amp but lacked bass. but the one i have just metioned should have bass as it is a revised there is one on ebay its super t amp
the cd player really is a gem and it needs the best you can afford to realy get the best from it
wow four players mind you i see why to be honest mate i would save up and buy a very good amp that cost over a grand new or much more. the amp is the heart of any good system, but you will pay a lot less used .or try the amazing sonic t amp in the modified form. it will cost you about £100 the amp is the heart of any good system i used a t amp in the past very good amp but lacked bass. but the one i have just metioned should have bass as it is a revised there is one on ebay its super t amp
the cd player really is a gem and it needs the best you can afford to realy get the best from it
Attachments
Thanks very much, whats gan on.
Don’t worry – I have only four CD4SE players because they cost me between £20 and £30 (with a couple being a bit more), so I figured they would be good for spares. However, they all work, with just one’s display backlight not working.
I am selling off other hi-fi equipment so I can consolidate my hi-fi and home cinema equipment and get the right equipment put in the right places.
Don’t worry – I have only four CD4SE players because they cost me between £20 and £30 (with a couple being a bit more), so I figured they would be good for spares. However, they all work, with just one’s display backlight not working.
I am selling off other hi-fi equipment so I can consolidate my hi-fi and home cinema equipment and get the right equipment put in the right places.
Re: Re: Re: cd 4se
Hi,
I'm not an inveterate fiddler so I haven't moddded my CD4SE.
The above sounds entirely reasonable, assuming there are coupling
caps on the output, I had a quick look once but wasn't entirely sure.
My system also has sibilance issues, think this is related to my
Audiolab 8000A, the best approach I think is the speakers c/o.
If you could sketch out the treble unit c/o may have some advice.
/sreten.
Sonusthree said:
Hi,
I'm not an inveterate fiddler so I haven't moddded my CD4SE.
The above sounds entirely reasonable, assuming there are coupling
caps on the output, I had a quick look once but wasn't entirely sure.
My system also has sibilance issues, think this is related to my
Audiolab 8000A, the best approach I think is the speakers c/o.
If you could sketch out the treble unit c/o may have some advice.
/sreten.
sreten said:
My system also has sibilance issues, think this is related to my
Audiolab 8000A, the best approach I think is the speakers c/o.
If you could sketch out the treble unit c/o may have some advice.
From what I can gather the Audiolab and Early Cyrus amps have quite similar characteristics. Powerful but forward. A bit like me!
Sorry. You have already, very kindly, helped me to figure out my crossover in this thread which is definitely a work in progress:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86568&highlig ht=
I have since heard the later MK2 611 and the sound is very different but lacks the magic of the MK1. The crossover and cabinets are identical but the drivers obviously have different specs. To put it bluntly they have really toned down the crossover region to reduce the natural sibilance of the horn but they sound very very dull and lifeless. I will be updating that thread very soon with my findings so far.
Sreten you are a true gentleman, Thank you.
JohnW said:
Hi John,
Thanks for taking the time to post here. I know just how busy you are. I know that you have designed some great stuff that I am yet to hear but there remains something special about the CD4SE. To me I love that something made for us ordinary people can sound so great. It seems as if in this one design you used all you're expertise to squeeze the best player from such a reasonable budget. In my opinion this is the mark of a really good designer.
Needless to say I am a big fan. If I was to replace the AD711 would it just be a case of making or buying a 'daughterboard' and connecting up the inputs to the opamp to the new discrete circuit?
Unfortunately I would have to study hard before I design my own discrete outputs.
Any pointers would be appreciated. I like to learn.
There are few commercially available opamps on the market. One example is :
http://www.forsselltech.com/JFET990-2.htm
But you can Google to find others.
It would most unlikely be plug and play, as the footprint will be totally different. And you should check whether the supply voltages are compatible.
But I am sure John would be able to give you much better advice.
Patrick
http://www.forsselltech.com/JFET990-2.htm
But you can Google to find others.
It would most unlikely be plug and play, as the footprint will be totally different. And you should check whether the supply voltages are compatible.
But I am sure John would be able to give you much better advice.
Patrick
Gilding the lilly?
Hi Patrick,
This is where things get a little scary for me
Firstly the native regs for the opamps are +/- 8 Volts. At least +/- 12 Volts is required for all of the commercial offerings I have found so far and this would mean also finding a new Bi-polar supply from somewhere. I lack the confidence, resources and perhaps the skills to mess around with mains voltages.
I think that it would be too much for me to deal with at once. Both technically and financially. If there was a tried and tested foolproof DIY breadboard type approach then I may nervously consider it.
I am also considering is swapping the 711 for a Burr Brown unit which is pin compatible. This would be easy, except I have no experience replacing surface mount stuff.
Finally my thoughts turn once again to the replacing the 711 with the "Tubalizer" I mentioned before. Technically this would seem like an easy substitution for someone of my ability. It only requires a simple +12 Volt supply which I can upgrade later on perhaps to a battery.
But the sound of this tube buffer is an unknown quantity and I would defintely be taking a risk. A £65 risk (96 Euros).
http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=81
My integrated amp has a passive preamp so I would expect that this choice would be very important.
Hi Patrick,
This is where things get a little scary for me
Firstly the native regs for the opamps are +/- 8 Volts. At least +/- 12 Volts is required for all of the commercial offerings I have found so far and this would mean also finding a new Bi-polar supply from somewhere. I lack the confidence, resources and perhaps the skills to mess around with mains voltages.
I think that it would be too much for me to deal with at once. Both technically and financially. If there was a tried and tested foolproof DIY breadboard type approach then I may nervously consider it.
I am also considering is swapping the 711 for a Burr Brown unit which is pin compatible. This would be easy, except I have no experience replacing surface mount stuff.
Finally my thoughts turn once again to the replacing the 711 with the "Tubalizer" I mentioned before. Technically this would seem like an easy substitution for someone of my ability. It only requires a simple +12 Volt supply which I can upgrade later on perhaps to a battery.
But the sound of this tube buffer is an unknown quantity and I would defintely be taking a risk. A £65 risk (96 Euros).
http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=81
My integrated amp has a passive preamp so I would expect that this choice would be very important.
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