Re: what's gan on
From your description it's not exactly clear what you did and I don't want to patronise you by asking things like 'did you remove the reg from the circuit board to do this?'
A picture of your setup would be great but otherwise a step by step account of what you did would be great.
I'm sure it can be sorted out.
Cheers.
whats gan on said:what's gan on i got nothing would not work at all ? i Connected the 12 volt + to pin 1 and earthed it to the case never worked anyone know why
hellllllllllllp
From your description it's not exactly clear what you did and I don't want to patronise you by asking things like 'did you remove the reg from the circuit board to do this?'
A picture of your setup would be great but otherwise a step by step account of what you did would be great.
I'm sure it can be sorted out.
Cheers.
Cd4se
HI the 5 v voltage reg was in place with the first pin taken away from the curcuit board then i connected 12 volts dc ,which was fed by battery. normally the reg would take it down to 5 volts so it would work the clock i have done this in the past with power supplies but not a battery. though i have ran a clock 2 from a battery it must be a earth issue or any thing else i have not a clue thanks for you reply sorry i did try to atacha a pic the file is to big sorry the reg is u 14 on the board
HI the 5 v voltage reg was in place with the first pin taken away from the curcuit board then i connected 12 volts dc ,which was fed by battery. normally the reg would take it down to 5 volts so it would work the clock i have done this in the past with power supplies but not a battery. though i have ran a clock 2 from a battery it must be a earth issue or any thing else i have not a clue thanks for you reply sorry i did try to atacha a pic the file is to big sorry the reg is u 14 on the board
Re: cd 4se kills marantz with clock and audio upgrades
Sounds like your mate might have chokes in his CD63 at R613-R616. These are between the +/- 12v regulators and the opamps, showing them a couple Ohms of power supply impedence, thus starving them for power. I used a ferite beaded jumper in mine instead.
whats gan on said:
Sounds like your mate might have chokes in his CD63 at R613-R616. These are between the +/- 12v regulators and the opamps, showing them a couple Ohms of power supply impedence, thus starving them for power. I used a ferite beaded jumper in mine instead.
Thundery CD4SE
Sorry to break into this thread but the forum won't let me post a new one after searching. Please forgive me and read on !
My well-liked Cambridge CD4SE has begun making spitty thunderous noises after working normally for about 40 minutes. Can anyone please tell me if there is a component in it that is known to fail after some years with this effect ? Also I notice there's loads of spare space in the case. Is there anything useful that could be fitted in in ? Many TIA.
Sorry to break into this thread but the forum won't let me post a new one after searching. Please forgive me and read on !
My well-liked Cambridge CD4SE has begun making spitty thunderous noises after working normally for about 40 minutes. Can anyone please tell me if there is a component in it that is known to fail after some years with this effect ? Also I notice there's loads of spare space in the case. Is there anything useful that could be fitted in in ? Many TIA.
Hi Anodyne,
I've never heard any sound from a CD player described as spitty and thunderous!! Sounds impressive!
Does it still play discs while making this noise? Is it a sound from the speakers (unlikely) or mechanical noise from the player itself?
More details on the fault would be helpful.
I could only guess at this stage that it may be a dodgy motor.
The most common failures of players of this age are usually lasers and motors. 7 - 9 years ain't bad going for a laser.
New lasers are about 22 quid from Dalbani.
Is the noise a clicking, a rhythmical rubbing, or loud whirring?
I know it's not that easy to describe.
What to do with all that space............................................
John Westlake (JohnW) is the designer this player so he should know!! I have toyed with the idea of adding a tube output stage but I think I'll try the discrete transistor output that John is suggesting. This may well require, or at least benefit from, another power supply to give the +/- 12 to 25 volts needed for various designs.
I've just invested some money in breadboarding kit and will soon try out some designs.
Have you seen the Marantz mods thread? It's huge!!! Some people over there have separated their digital, analogue and servo supplies by adding more transformers (Power supplies). This could be done internally if you're up to the job.
Cheers,
Martin.
I've never heard any sound from a CD player described as spitty and thunderous!! Sounds impressive!
Does it still play discs while making this noise? Is it a sound from the speakers (unlikely) or mechanical noise from the player itself?
More details on the fault would be helpful.
I could only guess at this stage that it may be a dodgy motor.
The most common failures of players of this age are usually lasers and motors. 7 - 9 years ain't bad going for a laser.
New lasers are about 22 quid from Dalbani.
Is the noise a clicking, a rhythmical rubbing, or loud whirring?
I know it's not that easy to describe.
What to do with all that space............................................
JohnW said:
John Westlake (JohnW) is the designer this player so he should know!! I have toyed with the idea of adding a tube output stage but I think I'll try the discrete transistor output that John is suggesting. This may well require, or at least benefit from, another power supply to give the +/- 12 to 25 volts needed for various designs.
I've just invested some money in breadboarding kit and will soon try out some designs.
Have you seen the Marantz mods thread? It's huge!!! Some people over there have separated their digital, analogue and servo supplies by adding more transformers (Power supplies). This could be done internally if you're up to the job.
Cheers,
Martin.
Hi Martin,
Thanks very much for responding. It's a quite scary sound from the speakers which mostly but not completely masks the music. It doesn't occur when using another source, even after a couple of hours.
From what you say I think I'll replace the laser and see what happens - or doesn't !
Not much point in upgrading until solved, but thanks very much for the pointer.
Thanks very much for responding. It's a quite scary sound from the speakers which mostly but not completely masks the music. It doesn't occur when using another source, even after a couple of hours.
From what you say I think I'll replace the laser and see what happens - or doesn't !
Not much point in upgrading until solved, but thanks very much for the pointer.
Hi Anode. Try to remain positive 
I think you should wait for a second opinion on this from someone a bit more knowledgeable than me before spending the money on a laser. However, it would probably only harm your wallet to do so and it would eliminate one possibility. I'll leave that up to you.
I've never really experienced this kind of thunderous noise from the speakers myself. A bad laser can sometimes make the sound from the speakers seem extremely choppy and fragmented. Is that what you mean?
There are people here who may recognise the problem if you try a little harder to describe it. You reap what you sow around here. My concern is that it may be a problem on the circuit board itself.
Does it happen straight away when you switch on from cold?
Does it work if you leave it switched on for some time before playing?
Does it happen every time and all CD's?
Can you quickly scan to the last few tracks of the disc and does this help?
Have you tried it on a full moon?
The experts around here (not me) are like detectives. They need clues.
You may even hear from JohnW himself.
Cheers,
Martin.
I think you should wait for a second opinion on this from someone a bit more knowledgeable than me before spending the money on a laser. However, it would probably only harm your wallet to do so and it would eliminate one possibility. I'll leave that up to you.
I've never really experienced this kind of thunderous noise from the speakers myself. A bad laser can sometimes make the sound from the speakers seem extremely choppy and fragmented. Is that what you mean?
There are people here who may recognise the problem if you try a little harder to describe it. You reap what you sow around here. My concern is that it may be a problem on the circuit board itself.
Does it happen straight away when you switch on from cold?
Does it work if you leave it switched on for some time before playing?
Does it happen every time and all CD's?
Can you quickly scan to the last few tracks of the disc and does this help?
Have you tried it on a full moon?
The experts around here (not me) are like detectives. They need clues.
You may even hear from JohnW himself.
Cheers,
Martin.
Hi Martin,
Can't really add much to original post: the CDP "...has begun making spitty thunderous noises after working normally for about 40 minutes".
It never does it from cold, doesn't do it every time I play a CD (even the same one), the noise is definitely a superfluous noise rather than something chopping up the signal, and I haven't tried it at full moon but it has snowed recently.
Will try skipping tracks but I'm sure it's not a faulty or dirty CD.
Can't really add much to original post: the CDP "...has begun making spitty thunderous noises after working normally for about 40 minutes".
It never does it from cold, doesn't do it every time I play a CD (even the same one), the noise is definitely a superfluous noise rather than something chopping up the signal, and I haven't tried it at full moon but it has snowed recently.
Will try skipping tracks but I'm sure it's not a faulty or dirty CD.
Hi Anodyne,
I mentioned scanning forward quickly through the tracks because the laser sled moves along a rail that is lubricated. Sometimes with age (and dirt) this grease hardens in some areas ( this relates to different areas of the disc) and prevents the laser from tracking the CD properly. Skipping quickly toward the ed of a disk can sometimes get past the icky sticky bit and therefore reveal the cause of your problem.
It would seem that your problem is related to the unit heating up and I hope that someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in with some good advice for you.
I could guess some more but .... well...... they would be just guesses. Spindle motor, sled motor, dry joints.......
Someone else around here must have an opinion?
If you really want to have a go at it yourself then this is what I would do. I'm not sure if others would do the same!!
Change the laser and while you're at it apply (while disconnected) a low voltage to each motor and check for any knocking or unusual sound while it is running. Clean the rails that the laser runs along with some cotton buds and alcohol and then re-grease (Not 2-in-1 oil though!).
Beware with this player that it is quite easy to ruin your new laser by stressing the very delicate ribbon cable that attaches it to the Circuit board. It tends to rip at the edges rendering it useless. You could replace the laser and damage it on the way in. It happened to me and I cried. Maybe it's just me.
If this is not the answer then it would have to be an electronic fault that would require some skill to sort out (unless it is simply a dodgy regulator). You have probably seen that most of the components are of the teeny tiny surface mount variety.
Have you heard of freeze spray? You wait for your player to warm up then zap individual components with it and if the problem goes away then you've hit the bullseye!!
I'm sure everybody knows but I have to add a warning about mains voltages and how they can kill you if you don't know what to do........
Anybody else have any ideas? Or even agree?
Cheers,
Martin.
anodyne said:
I mentioned scanning forward quickly through the tracks because the laser sled moves along a rail that is lubricated. Sometimes with age (and dirt) this grease hardens in some areas ( this relates to different areas of the disc) and prevents the laser from tracking the CD properly. Skipping quickly toward the ed of a disk can sometimes get past the icky sticky bit and therefore reveal the cause of your problem.
It would seem that your problem is related to the unit heating up and I hope that someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in with some good advice for you.
I could guess some more but .... well...... they would be just guesses. Spindle motor, sled motor, dry joints.......
Someone else around here must have an opinion?
If you really want to have a go at it yourself then this is what I would do. I'm not sure if others would do the same!!
Change the laser and while you're at it apply (while disconnected) a low voltage to each motor and check for any knocking or unusual sound while it is running. Clean the rails that the laser runs along with some cotton buds and alcohol and then re-grease (Not 2-in-1 oil though!).
Beware with this player that it is quite easy to ruin your new laser by stressing the very delicate ribbon cable that attaches it to the Circuit board. It tends to rip at the edges rendering it useless. You could replace the laser and damage it on the way in. It happened to me and I cried.
Maybe it's just me. If this is not the answer then it would have to be an electronic fault that would require some skill to sort out (unless it is simply a dodgy regulator). You have probably seen that most of the components are of the teeny tiny surface mount variety.
Have you heard of freeze spray? You wait for your player to warm up then zap individual components with it and if the problem goes away then you've hit the bullseye!!
I'm sure everybody knows but I have to add a warning about mains voltages and how they can kill you if you don't know what to do........ Anybody else have any ideas? Or even agree?
Cheers,
Martin.
Sonusthree said:
has any one ran the cd 4se off battries i have with great results martin this would suit you as you have super regs i am now running the digital and a nalog from a pc powersupply sounds great but i am not sure if the cd4 sounds better with the battery power i neeed to do a to b com
whats gan on said:
Hello mate, long time no see!
I'm in a bit of a pickle at the moment with mine. This thread will explain my strange problem:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98598
The designer John W himself to recommends changing the AD711 for a discrete output. I've been building some low voltage valve stuff for this purpose but am getting a bit lost with such small components. The problem I have is knowing where to grab the signal from on the board and I cant work out if the AD711 is integrating the signal from the differential DAC. There's an NE5532 or NE5534 in the player too and I have no idea what that does. I assumed that the signal would leave the DAC, go to an integrator and then to a buffer.
Yes, I've been planning to try separate supplies in mine for sometime. Have you wired it so that only the motors and control circuits are powered by the original transformer? That looks quite easy I suppose or have you given a separate supply +/-8V to the analog section?
Many people believe that separate supply to the clock (middle 5v reg) gives good results in other players. My first move would be to try that with a separate supply for the opamps.
Cheers,
Martin.
hi martin honest mate getting a good -power supply to the the 711 oamps ,reeps good results. also the positive regs are all powered together the clock the dac i think. if you look at the underside of your board you will see were the power is going the regulators you must cut the traces from the diodes then connect to wires to the caps
Hi,
well checking up on the AD711 :
A discrete equivalent is not going to be easy (worse is easy) - at all.
The only dubious parameter (typical of -ve rail Vas stage, 3 stage amplifiers)
is negative rail ripple rejection, which is very much worse than the +ve rail.
So I'd concentrate on the negative rail, some CRC filtering ?
/sreten.
well checking up on the AD711 :
A discrete equivalent is not going to be easy (worse is easy) - at all.
The only dubious parameter (typical of -ve rail Vas stage, 3 stage amplifiers)
is negative rail ripple rejection, which is very much worse than the +ve rail.
So I'd concentrate on the negative rail, some CRC filtering ?
/sreten.
sreten said:Hi,
well checking up on the AD711 :
A discrete equivalent is not going to be easy (worse is easy) - at all.
The only dubious parameter (typical of -ve rail Vas stage, 3 stage amplifiers)
is negative rail ripple rejection, which is very much worse than the +ve rail.
So I'd concentrate on the negative rail, some CRC filtering ?
Hi Sreten,
JohnW must have recommended it for a good reason. I wonder If he has a specific design in mind? I naively assumed that any good discrete circuit would do.
I've been investigating the possibility of taking the output directly from the dac but I don't want to kill it in the process. I don't know enough to mess with it and I already have one strange intermittent problem to deal with where the music slows down as if time stretched and distorts. It sounds like playing music through windows media player at the slowest possible speed and then ,usually, it recovers and plays OK again.
So, I guess until we can find a very good discrete alternative then the best thing would be to give the opamps their own well thought out supplies or maybe, just maybe add a little 'daughter board' with an opamp socket and play 'til the cows come home.
I think the supply is the safest bet since, as you know, it sounds pretty darn fine as it is.
I'm tying my little brain in knots trying to trace this SMD circuit.
Cheers,
Martin.
i am running the + side of things from a 12 volt motor bike battery
and it is a big improvement,it runs all 4 positive regulators and the bass is deeper and the whole sound is much much better more insight into the recordings. i would try this first as a op,amp with good powerful clean dc does sound really nice
try this it is a cheap upgrade it is well worth it
and it is a big improvement,it runs all 4 positive regulators and the bass is deeper and the whole sound is much much better more insight into the recordings. i would try this first as a op,amp with good powerful clean dc does sound really nice
try this it is a cheap upgrade it is well worth it
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