They all output 16/44.1 the digital out connector is for legacy audio CD playback. To play 24/192 you need DVD-A software and a soundcard giving a 24/192 SPDIF output, which only a few cards can do (Cards with 24/192 analog outputs doesn't mean that SPDIF 24/192 wil actually work. You would need to use I2S instead of SPDIF if you want 24/192
DVD-Audio and SACD are digitally crippled formats. Any device that supports these formats will not output them digitally... at least not above 16/44.
You could record the analog outputs with an A/D convertor and master to HDCD. Some DVD players understand HDCD.
Or you could try to find a compromised DVD-Audio software player and record your music to wave. (WinDVD no longer works for this unless you have an old copy) Then you just need a good soundcard to play back. But many sound cards are limited to 24/96 digital. This is still noticeably better than 16/44 and well worth it on good recordings.
On the positive side, DVD-A and SACD still sounded better on my Panasonic receivers using the lackluster analog inputs rather than using 16/44 digital inputs. The Panasonic SA-XR45/XR50 use a TI Equibit digital amp chip that doesnt need to do an A/D conversion when fed a digital signal.
I have a Toshiba portable DVD-A and DVD player whose outputs sound quite nice through headphones.
You could record the analog outputs with an A/D convertor and master to HDCD. Some DVD players understand HDCD.
Or you could try to find a compromised DVD-Audio software player and record your music to wave. (WinDVD no longer works for this unless you have an old copy) Then you just need a good soundcard to play back. But many sound cards are limited to 24/96 digital. This is still noticeably better than 16/44 and well worth it on good recordings.
On the positive side, DVD-A and SACD still sounded better on my Panasonic receivers using the lackluster analog inputs rather than using 16/44 digital inputs. The Panasonic SA-XR45/XR50 use a TI Equibit digital amp chip that doesnt need to do an A/D conversion when fed a digital signal.
I have a Toshiba portable DVD-A and DVD player whose outputs sound quite nice through headphones.
In fact, the main reason is that a computer DVD drive will not read a DVD-A as it would read a CD through the headphones output.
To get 24/192 you'll need a 24/192 capable soundcard and pull the I2S stream to the DAC you want to feed with. (SPDIF 24/192 gear seems to exist, but is extremely hard to find)
interesting - 24bit stuff
Saw this elsewhere in a post: http://www.diykits.com.hk/dac.html
Also almost all of the studio digital / analog / digital stuff is 24bit / 96k to 192k ... check out: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWire410-main.html ... and ... http://rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=731&ParentId=114 ...
I don't believe these do any conversions 'tween 16bit to 24 bit and back ... or 'tween SPDIF to 24 bit & back ...
Anyway all of the FireWire connected stuff is a minimum of 24 bit/96k multichannel (a lot of the USB stuff = not).
Saw this elsewhere in a post: http://www.diykits.com.hk/dac.html
Also almost all of the studio digital / analog / digital stuff is 24bit / 96k to 192k ... check out: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWire410-main.html ... and ... http://rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=731&ParentId=114 ...
I don't believe these do any conversions 'tween 16bit to 24 bit and back ... or 'tween SPDIF to 24 bit & back ...
Anyway all of the FireWire connected stuff is a minimum of 24 bit/96k multichannel (a lot of the USB stuff = not).
To my knowledge you cant get 24/192 DVD-A without doing something the RIAA doesnt want you to do.
If you want to digitally rip the DVD-A to wave that's possible, but not easy as most software holes have been closed.
Probably best to let the DVD-A and SACD formats die. The RIAA doesnt want us to have good sounding music anymore. They'd prefer to license DRM crippled lossy music at sub-16/44 resolution.
I remember the days when the RIAA actually wanted to make LP's sound good. Oh and there was Dolby and DBX noise reduction for casette tapes.
Now it's overcompressed CD's or MP3's....
If you want to digitally rip the DVD-A to wave that's possible, but not easy as most software holes have been closed.
Probably best to let the DVD-A and SACD formats die. The RIAA doesnt want us to have good sounding music anymore. They'd prefer to license DRM crippled lossy music at sub-16/44 resolution.
I remember the days when the RIAA actually wanted to make LP's sound good. Oh and there was Dolby and DBX noise reduction for casette tapes.
Now it's overcompressed CD's or MP3's....
True enough ...
" ... you cant get 24/192 DVD-A without doing something the RIAA doesnt want you to do. ..."
True enough: not allowed.
But in the case of bandwidth (192K) there is no problems putting 96K through it ... so a 24 bit / 192k data frame capable connection can pass a 24 bit / 96K data frame or 16 bit / 44K or whatever within the constraints of the bandwidth allowed.
I have a Pioneer DVD / DVD-A / CD player that claims 24 bit / 96K bandwidth and it plays CD quality 16 bit / 44K CDs without any problems and DVD-A without problems ...
The point is that building for greater bandwidth allows the lesser bandwidth stuff to pass through.
" ... you cant get 24/192 DVD-A without doing something the RIAA doesnt want you to do. ..."
True enough: not allowed.
But in the case of bandwidth (192K) there is no problems putting 96K through it ... so a 24 bit / 192k data frame capable connection can pass a 24 bit / 96K data frame or 16 bit / 44K or whatever within the constraints of the bandwidth allowed.
I have a Pioneer DVD / DVD-A / CD player that claims 24 bit / 96K bandwidth and it plays CD quality 16 bit / 44K CDs without any problems and DVD-A without problems ...
The point is that building for greater bandwidth allows the lesser bandwidth stuff to pass through.
along this line of thought: ...
... it appears that the pros (studio engineers / recordists / performers / sophisticated garage bands) are beginning to try to do this in a left handed fashion:
A most interesting new device: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge-main.html
" ... send up to 32 channels of Lightpipe [SPDIF ?] simultaneously at 44.1 or 48kHzÑor transfer up to 16 channels at 88.2 or 96kHz using the SMUX protocol. ... " (SPDIF = 16 bit / 44-48 ... SMUX = 24 bit / 96k === each channel, I suppose. Looks like Bob Dylan may get his way "real soon now".)
These kinds of optical devices are primarily intended to reduce / eliminate ground loop problems and power supply isolation between the recording room & sound control booth ... but no telling where they may find other uses ... like maybe my own home system? ... or yours?
I suppoes a system might work like this:
Multiple sources >>to>> the FW mixer above >>to>> sound booth computer >>=>> multiple tracks into big WAV files >>=>> to DVD (A?) or other digital masters >>=>> production DVD-A or other optical disc format ... (Play back = TBD?).
Anyway, I'm off to the AES trade show in San Francisco and these guys are supposed to be there (or at least their engineers = http://www.aes.org/ ). Report to follow (this thread or on another thread). (Trade shows= I hate 'em, but duty calls.)
... it appears that the pros (studio engineers / recordists / performers / sophisticated garage bands) are beginning to try to do this in a left handed fashion:
A most interesting new device: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge-main.html
" ... send up to 32 channels of Lightpipe [SPDIF ?] simultaneously at 44.1 or 48kHzÑor transfer up to 16 channels at 88.2 or 96kHz using the SMUX protocol. ... " (SPDIF = 16 bit / 44-48 ... SMUX = 24 bit / 96k === each channel, I suppose. Looks like Bob Dylan may get his way "real soon now".)
These kinds of optical devices are primarily intended to reduce / eliminate ground loop problems and power supply isolation between the recording room & sound control booth ... but no telling where they may find other uses ... like maybe my own home system? ... or yours?
I suppoes a system might work like this:
Multiple sources >>to>> the FW mixer above >>to>> sound booth computer >>=>> multiple tracks into big WAV files >>=>> to DVD (A?) or other digital masters >>=>> production DVD-A or other optical disc format ... (Play back = TBD?).
Anyway, I'm off to the AES trade show in San Francisco and these guys are supposed to be there (or at least their engineers = http://www.aes.org/ ). Report to follow (this thread or on another thread). (Trade shows= I hate 'em, but duty calls.)
S/MUX allows two ADAT Lightpipe cables to be combined.
Typically ADAT is limited to 48khz. MUX'ing two channels together gets you upto 96khz(maybe higher).
ADAT is not the same thing as SP/DIF. Although, ADAT devices do use the same toslink style connectors.
I believe there are better ways to transmit multiple channels of audio than ADAT. But ADAT seems very, very common.
Typically ADAT is limited to 48khz. MUX'ing two channels together gets you upto 96khz(maybe higher).
ADAT is not the same thing as SP/DIF. Although, ADAT devices do use the same toslink style connectors.
I believe there are better ways to transmit multiple channels of audio than ADAT. But ADAT seems very, very common.
so common that it works?
" ... S/MUX allows two ADAT Lightpipe cables to be combined. Typically ADAT is limited to 48khz. MUX'ing two channels together gets you upto 96khz ... ADAT devices do use the same toslink style connectors [as SPDIF]. ... ADAT seems very, very common. ..."
So common that it works? Common enough that it might be prefered to 16 bit/44k quality? Common enough that even a hollywood producer might recognize it as better audio for the the same manufacturing costs?
The question is how do we get this higher bit rate / bandwidth into our audio systems without
a) breaking the bank.
b) jumping through hoops for the Music Industrial Complex's oppressive rules re: standards and copy protection and p***ing off Sony, et al.
c) getting reasonably better quality without busting up last century's inferior CD technology.
I am under the impression that high(er) quality studio masters are being produced at better than multichannel 24 bit/96k right now and it is possible to reproduce these masters on inexpensive optical discs in an almost "universally" playable/readable format (available to us mortals as DVD-A and other protocols).
To quote last century's baby boomer mantra: "We want it all and we want it all now!"
" ... S/MUX allows two ADAT Lightpipe cables to be combined. Typically ADAT is limited to 48khz. MUX'ing two channels together gets you upto 96khz ... ADAT devices do use the same toslink style connectors [as SPDIF]. ... ADAT seems very, very common. ..."
So common that it works? Common enough that it might be prefered to 16 bit/44k quality? Common enough that even a hollywood producer might recognize it as better audio for the the same manufacturing costs?
The question is how do we get this higher bit rate / bandwidth into our audio systems without
a) breaking the bank.
b) jumping through hoops for the Music Industrial Complex's oppressive rules re: standards and copy protection and p***ing off Sony, et al.
c) getting reasonably better quality without busting up last century's inferior CD technology.
I am under the impression that high(er) quality studio masters are being produced at better than multichannel 24 bit/96k right now and it is possible to reproduce these masters on inexpensive optical discs in an almost "universally" playable/readable format (available to us mortals as DVD-A and other protocols).
To quote last century's baby boomer mantra: "We want it all and we want it all now!"
ashok, why do you want to send the signal digitally? Any DVD,DVA-A,SACD player has analog outputs with 24/96 or 24/192 resolution.
Are you doing digital crossover?
Sending the signal long distances?
Because if your DVD player is sitting right next to a preamp, you'd really have no need for it.
If you want to use an upgraded external DAC I guess I could see why you'd want to. But I've found that most of the unmodded DVA-A and SACD players sound pretty good.
A file called dvdaripper_099f.zip was available briefly on rarewares that would work with WinDVD7 and earlier to extract digital.
Are you doing digital crossover?
Sending the signal long distances?
Because if your DVD player is sitting right next to a preamp, you'd really have no need for it.
If you want to use an upgraded external DAC I guess I could see why you'd want to. But I've found that most of the unmodded DVA-A and SACD players sound pretty good.
A file called dvdaripper_099f.zip was available briefly on rarewares that would work with WinDVD7 and earlier to extract digital.
Hi Daveis,
I have two reasons for this. One is to feed the signal to an external 24/192 DAC and the other is to use 24/192 signals for evaluating new system implementations. The only genuine 24/192 material I can get is off a DVD-A disc.
I have a Pioneer 677AS DVD player which plays DVD-A . However my Marantz CD-17-II sounds better than it in CD playback. So the DVD-A is suspect. A Denon DVD2900 also sounds better however that was a different system and so not really comparable.
Cheers,
Ashok.
I have two reasons for this. One is to feed the signal to an external 24/192 DAC and the other is to use 24/192 signals for evaluating new system implementations. The only genuine 24/192 material I can get is off a DVD-A disc.
I have a Pioneer 677AS DVD player which plays DVD-A . However my Marantz CD-17-II sounds better than it in CD playback. So the DVD-A is suspect. A Denon DVD2900 also sounds better however that was a different system and so not really comparable.
Cheers,
Ashok.
DragonMaster said:
Which PCB are you referring to. I am interested in intercepting the output (notI2S) of a satellite receiver to the dadc to output spdif. Just needs a CS 8404/6 I guess.
The oelich board does its job well in a dvd player, but raw output at 24/192 into a jitter buster is what I desire as unfortunately the 192k output of cheaper dvd players is very poor.
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