I see their control 8. I can see why this sells, but it is not a good
way to interface with a computer. There is always the problem of correspondance of controls.
Picture posted here as it is too big.
http://groups.google.com/group/audi...a4d0e/58cc6c31818d0f6c?hl=en#58cc6c31818d0f6c
way to interface with a computer. There is always the problem of correspondance of controls.
Picture posted here as it is too big.
http://groups.google.com/group/audi...a4d0e/58cc6c31818d0f6c?hl=en#58cc6c31818d0f6c
An earlier post got lost.
Firewire is from Apple. I did not know that
from Ross <<
I would say jitter added by USB would remain in the signal unless compensated for. Jitter would be added during ADC/DAC conversion and through USB transmission in the same way spdif transmission causes jitter, at least the effect of, that is present in the audible/recorded signal. Firewire will do the same to some degree as well.
>>
It would seem to me that good buffering would make the transimission jitter irrelevant.
<<
I dont think the digidesigns plugin standard is open source, therefore you will not get open source plugins. HAvent really looked into it though. For a lot of people digidesign are the last word in studio production in terms of software.
>>
Digidesign is not open source. But maybe people do or could make software compatible with it that is.
<<
I think LADSPA and VST are the only true open source plugin formats, until you have identified faults with these I dont see the point in looking for something else. In fact if you dont stop long enough to look at any of the things dicussed in this thread there is very little to differentiate one solution from another.
>>
I have looked at these and will continue to. There are so many things here, it is hard to keep them straight. Focusing on on digidesign has been informative. I'm almost done with their top end.
<<
Perhaps the flexibility you are looking for lies in systems like jmax and Pure Data which are open source alternatives to Cycling 74's max/dsp. These are all graphical media programming languages - you build plugins, synths or whatever else you could possibly imagine. You can build your own LADSPA plugins. A number of my favourite electronic music artists use max/dsp in there music production - but it could be used to do most things audio. The jmax site has links to several other interesting opensource apps.
>>
I will look at these.
<<
I cant keep up with you! I know rock all about microphones - dont even know what you want them for in your dsp box. If its for measurement there are diy measurement mics, good enough for linkwitz. But you know you can get a good microphone if you need one. Milstead doesnt seem to be an advocate of open source.
>>
I'm interested in microphones for recording, and measurement. Know any good for measurement.
Milstead is not concerned about open source. Know any writters who are?
ZMB
Firewire is from Apple. I did not know that
from Ross <<
I would say jitter added by USB would remain in the signal unless compensated for. Jitter would be added during ADC/DAC conversion and through USB transmission in the same way spdif transmission causes jitter, at least the effect of, that is present in the audible/recorded signal. Firewire will do the same to some degree as well.
>>
It would seem to me that good buffering would make the transimission jitter irrelevant.
<<
I dont think the digidesigns plugin standard is open source, therefore you will not get open source plugins. HAvent really looked into it though. For a lot of people digidesign are the last word in studio production in terms of software.
>>
Digidesign is not open source. But maybe people do or could make software compatible with it that is.
<<
I think LADSPA and VST are the only true open source plugin formats, until you have identified faults with these I dont see the point in looking for something else. In fact if you dont stop long enough to look at any of the things dicussed in this thread there is very little to differentiate one solution from another.
>>
I have looked at these and will continue to. There are so many things here, it is hard to keep them straight. Focusing on on digidesign has been informative. I'm almost done with their top end.
<<
Perhaps the flexibility you are looking for lies in systems like jmax and Pure Data which are open source alternatives to Cycling 74's max/dsp. These are all graphical media programming languages - you build plugins, synths or whatever else you could possibly imagine. You can build your own LADSPA plugins. A number of my favourite electronic music artists use max/dsp in there music production - but it could be used to do most things audio. The jmax site has links to several other interesting opensource apps.
>>
I will look at these.
<<
I cant keep up with you! I know rock all about microphones - dont even know what you want them for in your dsp box. If its for measurement there are diy measurement mics, good enough for linkwitz. But you know you can get a good microphone if you need one. Milstead doesnt seem to be an advocate of open source.
>>
I'm interested in microphones for recording, and measurement. Know any good for measurement.
Milstead is not concerned about open source. Know any writters who are?
ZMB
zenmasterbrian said:
No. You would need to re-clock the signal.
See Behringer http://www.behringer.com/ECM8000/index.cfm?lang=ger ridicoulously cheap. Used also by DEQX.
Jan Didden
I see that, only $65 for a measurement condenser mike.
Also a model C1 studio mike, $50US.
They also have a number of other microphones, and other interesting products, like headphones, 32 ohms.
As far a reclocking, I would assume that that automatically is done. Really far more, that there is buffering, so that transmission jitter has no effect.
I want to better understand the architectures of all of these systems.
Microphone list being comiled on Audio Explorations
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_recording/browse_thread/thread/6c41e2d8fd7cdbde?hl=en
Also a model C1 studio mike, $50US.
They also have a number of other microphones, and other interesting products, like headphones, 32 ohms.
As far a reclocking, I would assume that that automatically is done. Really far more, that there is buffering, so that transmission jitter has no effect.
I want to better understand the architectures of all of these systems.
Microphone list being comiled on Audio Explorations
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_recording/browse_thread/thread/6c41e2d8fd7cdbde?hl=en
Beginning to think there is room for improvement over what digidesign offers. Except for the largest scale commercial uses, I think there are far better price options. Even digidesigns smaller home and amateur oriented systems could be improved upon.
Open source would be part of it.
I would still rather have outbord DSP, and outboard analogs from that.
For the PC being in the system, then the low latency Linuxes would seem to be the best.
So I guess that is the next place for me to look in greater detail.
ZMB
Open source would be part of it.
I would still rather have outbord DSP, and outboard analogs from that.
For the PC being in the system, then the low latency Linuxes would seem to be the best.
So I guess that is the next place for me to look in greater detail.
ZMB
I want to summarize some to the links are references surface on this thread so far:
<<
There is a lot of interesting audio projects going on in open source community. Digital room correction, AAC/MPEG codecs, lossless audio compression, just to name a few. You can run Linux on embedded architectures, or on your iPod. For hardware developers, there is open IP cores project. Why don't you join the fun?
>>
winamp?
foobar2000?
DACtester
http://www.quinnware.com/
<<
Slightly off topic, but the audio features of the next version of Windows (Vista) has some pretty sophisticated audio processing built in, including bass management & digital room correction.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=713073
>>
<<
SlimServer has a plugin architecture (and a "non-open" client/DAC), whch for example lets you do room correction DSP on the PC (http://inguzaudio.com/RoomCorrection/) before the bits are streamed to the squeezebox.
>>
<<
The PC world already has plugin standards for any possible use. DirectX plugins for the Microsoft camp and VST plugins for the digital audio workstation folks. Media players like winamp and fooba
>>
<<
not a Mac/PC, what hardware do you plan to run all these plug-ins on ? VST/VSTi,TDM, Core Audio and LADSPA are all OS based be it Linux, OS X or Windows. Even the standalone audio editor, AMS Neve's Audiofile is based on NT technology
>>
http://www.behringer.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_workstation
http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG
<<
$1000 PC
$500 RME HDSP9652 sound card
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/hdsp9652.htm
$300 Alesis ADAT AI3(ADAT breakout to amps)
Either of these software for crossover function
$80 http://www.thuneau.com/ freuqncy allocator lite
$99 http://www.voxengo.com/product/glisseq/
DVD/DVAAudio player
$80 http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVD_Profile.jsp
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
almost $2000 total price
under $200 for the software
>>
<<
VST is a plugin specification for the Windows/Mac world. It was created by Steinberg. I believe it is much better suited to Windows audio processing than say DirectSound/DirectX which is more geared towards gaming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology
VST effects can be chained together within a "VST plugin host" in much the same way as standard input and output can be routed from program to program in Unix/Linux.
Linux folks have JACK/ALSA as sound API's. And Brutefir for FIR based crossover. They also have DRC.
PC + VST plugin host + VST plugins + professional ASIO soundcard = what you are looking for in the PC world.
The Linux community is well represented here.
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Main_Page
They have numerous links to Linux solutions.
Linux Boot CD(or Linux on USB flash) + custom programming/Unix shell scripts = another route for what you are looking for.
The big enemy in all PC based solutions as I see it is latency. Most people will want to watch DVD movies at some point. Without very low latency processing, your audio and video lip-synch would be lost. This is very annoying. A few software DVD players can delay the video to match the audio. I've never experimented with that.
Before you invest alot in a PC solution you should consider how you are going to deal with latency.
I chose Thuneau's freuqency allocator lite product. It supports low latencies downto 3-6 msec. That's ok for watching movies when I need to.
>>
<<
Here's a link to a Stanford Univ. bulletin board which deals with a Open Source/ Open Hardware project for high end audio. http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2006/04/0016.html
It's basically a side project for the Open Graphics Project. Here's a quote:
quote:
One such idea that's been brought up before is ultra high end audio.
The low-end is solved; it's called AC97 and is found in every PC
chipset you can buy today. But imagine taking what would normally
cost tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in audio recording and
production equipment and applying the open source model to it.
>>
DVD/DVAAudio player
$80 http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVD_Profile.jsp
<<
M-audio supports spdif in the 2496 model and above, many sound cards with the via envy also support spdif. (Chaintek AVS-710 IIRC asio compatible too) Cards from RME, M-audio, and EMU amongst others generally support asio, direct pass through mode for surround via spdif and have better converters. (Asio allows you to totally bypass the windows sound dll (winmixer, resampler, etc..) which is kind of important for good *stereo* sound quality over spdif.)
Most AC-97 compliant hardware uses a hardware based resampler which in some cases cannot be defeated for stereo, most allow pass through of dolby and dts. Most Realtec chipsets used in cheap sound cards and integrated sound should be avoided for this reason if high quality stereo is the primary motivation. Better cards based on the Via Envy processing engine which is AC-97 compliant have a non resample option that can be used in stereo as well as dts/dolby.
>>
<<
I recently installed J.River Media Center 11 and liked it enough to buy it. It supports all of the media formats I currently use either natively or with readily available (and often open source) plugins. Unlike Winamp, FooBar2000 (open source!) or QCD it is not freeware, but at $40 for a license to install it on 2 machines it is a bargain.
It is capable of handling, audio, video, dvd playback, off air TV, and picture media, has a built in server capability to serve media to other machines (will explore this more fully at some point, not using it currently) It is fully compatible with microsoft plays for sure and Apple AAC with DRM (m4p) although they are not allowed to translate from one to the other. I currently use it to play the several hundred m4p songs I have purchased from iTunes as well as flac, m4a, and mp3 encoded material I have in my library.
Many of the plugins written for it are open source. FLAC and other codecs are available for it directly from the J. River site or sourceforge.
Asio, DirectSound and other modes are supported depending on the hardware installed in the pc.
This player is designed to compete with the media edition of WinXP which it does I think quite successfully.
IMO The only open source player listed (FooBar) is also the least desirable currently available. The one big thing I really liked about it was the tabbed playlist feature. Performance with FLAC, ASIO and HDCD encoded material was poor compared to the others. (Couldn't handle the HDCD bit stream cleanly.)
Despite being the most complex player media center 11 (in the short time I have used it) has proven to be considerably more stable than either WinAmp or QCD.
>>
http://www.musicdsp.org/
Source code reposititory for digital audio. I found out about this on a digital signal processing usenet.
http://www.dspguru.com/
This is a web site and org devoted to sharing of resources for digital
signal processing, including software.
Parallel Conversations Starting:
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_amps_atob
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_amps_dght
<<
The new Sony Play Station 3 might be a good platform to experiment with..
It will have a BlueRay true HD DVD player
>>
<<
Look at Giantdisc it can use older palm handhelds to control an audio server via bluetooth i.e. no montior or keyboard required. It is open source and all the programmes it requires are as well. For a competent programmer (not me Im afraid) it would be relatively simple to add further formats simply by using pluggins, and the addition of Brutefir would be a nice touch. It would be simple to add control features to the palm. Surely something like this, a complete system, is a better starting point than a device you 'could' turn into a remote control for something you have not yet even defined?!
There are many minimal linux distributions that can run off usb flash drives and could be modified by a competent programmer to include most functionalities you are dreaming of.
You might want to check
Demudi out as well. It is a linux OS that has been carefully otimised for low latency audio - a 'DAW' as you mentioned earlier. In my oppinion its repositories inlcude the best of open source audio software, and if you want to be active in open source audio development it is a good place to start. You can check it for alternatives to VST and you should definetly look at the JACK audio server, the heart of the system. Sony, as a consortium member, based a prototype 'Hifi' unit on Demudi, see here although I doubt they will be willing to share. looks like what you want to do, at least physically.
Ubuntu Studio is also a very interesting site. it focuses on otpimising Ubuntu in the same way Demudi was developed from debian. It also has interesting links to a number of other projects.
Mythtv is also a popular base for an open source audio system.
>>
<<
FLAC
JACK
found this. its a dsp card with audio ins and outs that can be programmed via linux for a number of uses, one being a 'thx pro logic like' decoder (i.e. its not actually an official decoder) - however its not open source, I dont think, and costs about a grand for the card although the software is free to download.
>>
<<
There is a lot of interesting audio projects going on in open source community. Digital room correction, AAC/MPEG codecs, lossless audio compression, just to name a few. You can run Linux on embedded architectures, or on your iPod. For hardware developers, there is open IP cores project. Why don't you join the fun?
>>
winamp?
foobar2000?
DACtester
http://www.quinnware.com/
<<
Slightly off topic, but the audio features of the next version of Windows (Vista) has some pretty sophisticated audio processing built in, including bass management & digital room correction.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=713073
>>
<<
SlimServer has a plugin architecture (and a "non-open" client/DAC), whch for example lets you do room correction DSP on the PC (http://inguzaudio.com/RoomCorrection/) before the bits are streamed to the squeezebox.
>>
<<
The PC world already has plugin standards for any possible use. DirectX plugins for the Microsoft camp and VST plugins for the digital audio workstation folks. Media players like winamp and fooba
>>
<<
not a Mac/PC, what hardware do you plan to run all these plug-ins on ? VST/VSTi,TDM, Core Audio and LADSPA are all OS based be it Linux, OS X or Windows. Even the standalone audio editor, AMS Neve's Audiofile is based on NT technology
>>
http://www.behringer.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_workstation
http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG
<<
$1000 PC
$500 RME HDSP9652 sound card
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/hdsp9652.htm
$300 Alesis ADAT AI3(ADAT breakout to amps)
Either of these software for crossover function
$80 http://www.thuneau.com/ freuqncy allocator lite
$99 http://www.voxengo.com/product/glisseq/
DVD/DVAAudio player
$80 http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVD_Profile.jsp
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
almost $2000 total price
under $200 for the software
>>
<<
VST is a plugin specification for the Windows/Mac world. It was created by Steinberg. I believe it is much better suited to Windows audio processing than say DirectSound/DirectX which is more geared towards gaming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology
VST effects can be chained together within a "VST plugin host" in much the same way as standard input and output can be routed from program to program in Unix/Linux.
Linux folks have JACK/ALSA as sound API's. And Brutefir for FIR based crossover. They also have DRC.
PC + VST plugin host + VST plugins + professional ASIO soundcard = what you are looking for in the PC world.
The Linux community is well represented here.
http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Main_Page
They have numerous links to Linux solutions.
Linux Boot CD(or Linux on USB flash) + custom programming/Unix shell scripts = another route for what you are looking for.
The big enemy in all PC based solutions as I see it is latency. Most people will want to watch DVD movies at some point. Without very low latency processing, your audio and video lip-synch would be lost. This is very annoying. A few software DVD players can delay the video to match the audio. I've never experimented with that.
Before you invest alot in a PC solution you should consider how you are going to deal with latency.
I chose Thuneau's freuqency allocator lite product. It supports low latencies downto 3-6 msec. That's ok for watching movies when I need to.
>>
<<
Here's a link to a Stanford Univ. bulletin board which deals with a Open Source/ Open Hardware project for high end audio. http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2006/04/0016.html
It's basically a side project for the Open Graphics Project. Here's a quote:
quote:
One such idea that's been brought up before is ultra high end audio.
The low-end is solved; it's called AC97 and is found in every PC
chipset you can buy today. But imagine taking what would normally
cost tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in audio recording and
production equipment and applying the open source model to it.
>>
DVD/DVAAudio player
$80 http://www.intervideo.com/jsp/WinDVD_Profile.jsp
<<
M-audio supports spdif in the 2496 model and above, many sound cards with the via envy also support spdif. (Chaintek AVS-710 IIRC asio compatible too) Cards from RME, M-audio, and EMU amongst others generally support asio, direct pass through mode for surround via spdif and have better converters. (Asio allows you to totally bypass the windows sound dll (winmixer, resampler, etc..) which is kind of important for good *stereo* sound quality over spdif.)
Most AC-97 compliant hardware uses a hardware based resampler which in some cases cannot be defeated for stereo, most allow pass through of dolby and dts. Most Realtec chipsets used in cheap sound cards and integrated sound should be avoided for this reason if high quality stereo is the primary motivation. Better cards based on the Via Envy processing engine which is AC-97 compliant have a non resample option that can be used in stereo as well as dts/dolby.
>>
<<
I recently installed J.River Media Center 11 and liked it enough to buy it. It supports all of the media formats I currently use either natively or with readily available (and often open source) plugins. Unlike Winamp, FooBar2000 (open source!) or QCD it is not freeware, but at $40 for a license to install it on 2 machines it is a bargain.
It is capable of handling, audio, video, dvd playback, off air TV, and picture media, has a built in server capability to serve media to other machines (will explore this more fully at some point, not using it currently) It is fully compatible with microsoft plays for sure and Apple AAC with DRM (m4p) although they are not allowed to translate from one to the other. I currently use it to play the several hundred m4p songs I have purchased from iTunes as well as flac, m4a, and mp3 encoded material I have in my library.
Many of the plugins written for it are open source. FLAC and other codecs are available for it directly from the J. River site or sourceforge.
Asio, DirectSound and other modes are supported depending on the hardware installed in the pc.
This player is designed to compete with the media edition of WinXP which it does I think quite successfully.
IMO The only open source player listed (FooBar) is also the least desirable currently available. The one big thing I really liked about it was the tabbed playlist feature. Performance with FLAC, ASIO and HDCD encoded material was poor compared to the others. (Couldn't handle the HDCD bit stream cleanly.)
Despite being the most complex player media center 11 (in the short time I have used it) has proven to be considerably more stable than either WinAmp or QCD.
>>
http://www.musicdsp.org/
Source code reposititory for digital audio. I found out about this on a digital signal processing usenet.
http://www.dspguru.com/
This is a web site and org devoted to sharing of resources for digital
signal processing, including software.
Parallel Conversations Starting:
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_amps_atob
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_amps_dght
<<
The new Sony Play Station 3 might be a good platform to experiment with..
It will have a BlueRay true HD DVD player
>>
<<
Look at Giantdisc it can use older palm handhelds to control an audio server via bluetooth i.e. no montior or keyboard required. It is open source and all the programmes it requires are as well. For a competent programmer (not me Im afraid) it would be relatively simple to add further formats simply by using pluggins, and the addition of Brutefir would be a nice touch. It would be simple to add control features to the palm. Surely something like this, a complete system, is a better starting point than a device you 'could' turn into a remote control for something you have not yet even defined?!
There are many minimal linux distributions that can run off usb flash drives and could be modified by a competent programmer to include most functionalities you are dreaming of.
You might want to check
Demudi out as well. It is a linux OS that has been carefully otimised for low latency audio - a 'DAW' as you mentioned earlier. In my oppinion its repositories inlcude the best of open source audio software, and if you want to be active in open source audio development it is a good place to start. You can check it for alternatives to VST and you should definetly look at the JACK audio server, the heart of the system. Sony, as a consortium member, based a prototype 'Hifi' unit on Demudi, see here although I doubt they will be willing to share. looks like what you want to do, at least physically.
Ubuntu Studio is also a very interesting site. it focuses on otpimising Ubuntu in the same way Demudi was developed from debian. It also has interesting links to a number of other projects.
Mythtv is also a popular base for an open source audio system.
>>
<<
FLAC
JACK
found this. its a dsp card with audio ins and outs that can be programmed via linux for a number of uses, one being a 'thx pro logic like' decoder (i.e. its not actually an official decoder) - however its not open source, I dont think, and costs about a grand for the card although the software is free to download.
>>
Summary continued
<<
You'll notice on the demudi homepage they are developing an 'embedded' version of the OS, this will mean it can run better on lower spec machines and on a smaller storage footprint. Here is a tutorial on how develop a silent (diskless fanless) system based on the demudi live cd and a mini itx system. You could do something similar and include giantdisc and/or mythtv using a distibution like Slax which is the most configurable mini distribution and it is easy to get it to boot off a usb flash drive (it even has JACK, mysql and Mplayer as packages!). Somebody on the giantdisc forum has got it working with bluetooth on slax.
....
AlmusVCU is by the same developer as brutefir and looks to provide a means of developing a dsp 'box' based on brutefir and interfaced via hardware buttons and an LCD display. This seems to be in the same spirit as the system you envisage.
....
By the way, in terms of ease of use ubuntu is brilliant. Im using it at the moment. In many ways it is easier to use than windows and just about any audio app you can think of (all those included in demudi) is available for easy install. Its a good starting base if you are not linux savvy. Ubuntustudio is simply a wiki focused on optimising ubuntu for audio so that it is something similar to demudi, demudi is not nearly as polished in terms of user friendliness or support.
>>
Sony OXF-R3
Milstead endorses:
SONAR
Sound Forge 6.0, from Sonic Foundry
Cool Edit Pro
Pro-Logic
He also endorses the DirectX plug in standard. Sound like this was originally for games? Uses hardware abstraction layer, (HAL)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX
He shows the following DirectX type plug ins:
TC Works' Native DeX, for dynamics processing
Antares' Microphone Modeler
AnalogX's free vocal remover
He talks about sound cards. Of course he wants a two way sound card. Some have S/PDIF coaxial connectors too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF
Milstead mentions such cards from
Korg 1212 I/O
Digidesign AudioMedia III
Emu Audio Production Studio
Ensoniq PARIS
Emagic Audiowerk
Even Electronics' Lavla
<<
think in terms of a configurable audio dsp solution the KXproject could also be a good starting point. It is well known on this forum, you will find much more specific applications of it using a forum search.
It is a driver for EMU10K1 & 2 based soundcards developed independently of creative. By replacing the creative drivers with the KX ones, you are given an interface to control the functionality of EMU DSP chips almost without limit. If particular plugins do not exist, there is an sdk and very helpful community which will help you get there. There is also a plugin which allows the dsp to be used as a VST plugin within some hosts.
>>
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_...MixIO-main.html
<<
I think LADSPA and VST are the only true open source plugin formats, until you have identified faults with these I dont see the point in looking for something else. In fact if you dont stop long enough to look at any of the things dicussed in this thread there is very little to differentiate one solution from another.
Perhaps the flexibility you are looking for lies in systems like jmax and Pure Data which are open source alternatives to Cycling 74's max/dsp. These are all graphical media programming languages - you build plugins, synths or whatever else you could possibly imagine. You can build your own LADSPA plugins. A number of my favourite electronic music artists use max/dsp in there music production - but it could be used to do most things audio. The jmax site has links to several other interesting opensource apps.
>>
<<
Post #167
More than one way to skin a cat.
>>
<<
You'll notice on the demudi homepage they are developing an 'embedded' version of the OS, this will mean it can run better on lower spec machines and on a smaller storage footprint. Here is a tutorial on how develop a silent (diskless fanless) system based on the demudi live cd and a mini itx system. You could do something similar and include giantdisc and/or mythtv using a distibution like Slax which is the most configurable mini distribution and it is easy to get it to boot off a usb flash drive (it even has JACK, mysql and Mplayer as packages!). Somebody on the giantdisc forum has got it working with bluetooth on slax.
....
AlmusVCU is by the same developer as brutefir and looks to provide a means of developing a dsp 'box' based on brutefir and interfaced via hardware buttons and an LCD display. This seems to be in the same spirit as the system you envisage.
....
By the way, in terms of ease of use ubuntu is brilliant. Im using it at the moment. In many ways it is easier to use than windows and just about any audio app you can think of (all those included in demudi) is available for easy install. Its a good starting base if you are not linux savvy. Ubuntustudio is simply a wiki focused on optimising ubuntu for audio so that it is something similar to demudi, demudi is not nearly as polished in terms of user friendliness or support.
>>
Sony OXF-R3
Milstead endorses:
SONAR
Sound Forge 6.0, from Sonic Foundry
Cool Edit Pro
Pro-Logic
He also endorses the DirectX plug in standard. Sound like this was originally for games? Uses hardware abstraction layer, (HAL)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX
He shows the following DirectX type plug ins:
TC Works' Native DeX, for dynamics processing
Antares' Microphone Modeler
AnalogX's free vocal remover
He talks about sound cards. Of course he wants a two way sound card. Some have S/PDIF coaxial connectors too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF
Milstead mentions such cards from
Korg 1212 I/O
Digidesign AudioMedia III
Emu Audio Production Studio
Ensoniq PARIS
Emagic Audiowerk
Even Electronics' Lavla
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think in terms of a configurable audio dsp solution the KXproject could also be a good starting point. It is well known on this forum, you will find much more specific applications of it using a forum search.
It is a driver for EMU10K1 & 2 based soundcards developed independently of creative. By replacing the creative drivers with the KX ones, you are given an interface to control the functionality of EMU DSP chips almost without limit. If particular plugins do not exist, there is an sdk and very helpful community which will help you get there. There is also a plugin which allows the dsp to be used as a VST plugin within some hosts.
>>
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_...MixIO-main.html
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I think LADSPA and VST are the only true open source plugin formats, until you have identified faults with these I dont see the point in looking for something else. In fact if you dont stop long enough to look at any of the things dicussed in this thread there is very little to differentiate one solution from another.
Perhaps the flexibility you are looking for lies in systems like jmax and Pure Data which are open source alternatives to Cycling 74's max/dsp. These are all graphical media programming languages - you build plugins, synths or whatever else you could possibly imagine. You can build your own LADSPA plugins. A number of my favourite electronic music artists use max/dsp in there music production - but it could be used to do most things audio. The jmax site has links to several other interesting opensource apps.
>>
<<
Post #167
More than one way to skin a cat.
>>
I guess Linux is the place to start, because it works, and because it is all open source.
So say, start with a low latency linux, and all the needed extras.
That all could be made to work on something diskless and fanless.
But it could also be ported to a DSP box.
Then, the code could be made to work with out linux even.
Seems that this needs to be done in a hierarcy.
At the top, you do have a full PC, with a big hard disk, and a fan.
But then it scales down from there.
I've got a few things to look at, then it is LADSPA
So say, start with a low latency linux, and all the needed extras.
That all could be made to work on something diskless and fanless.
But it could also be ported to a DSP box.
Then, the code could be made to work with out linux even.
Seems that this needs to be done in a hierarcy.
At the top, you do have a full PC, with a big hard disk, and a fan.
But then it scales down from there.
I've got a few things to look at, then it is LADSPA
I'm just beginning to get up to speed in this area. I do not have the hands on experience that many of those who posted here do.
But I am moving rapidly.
I'm going to try to articulate how I am seeing this at this time.
The PC is going to be the master source for any user defined software system. You will always want to have a full PC somewhere in the system. You will want internet access, media for doing data backups, the ability to edit one file while compiling another, a big hard disk, and a fan to cool the big banks of hot DRAMs that let it work quickly.
A full PC will always be part of the system.
But that does not mean it has to be the only part, or even that it has to be on all the time.
Likewise, I feel that a sophisticated multitrack recording and editing capability should be part of the system, as well as music synthesis, sequencing, patch editing, and more.
Idealy, this would all be open source.
If a PC is the master source, what other futher downline nodes might their be?
A diskless fanless PC, like in the jukebox project could be next. It will have the full display which makes the nice user interface. It might run a low latency Linux.
Futher down? I still would feel better if the real time core was done by a CPU totally decoupled from hard disks, or general operating systems with file structures and all.
I guess this could be a diskless fanless PC running different code, but probably not. Really it could be something very simple. It could be just an evaluation board from a processor maker.
Maybe it is what is built into some sound cards for PCs? I would still rather it be more detached, more digitally isolated from the Linux system.
I would also prefere if the analog portions of this system were in a separate enclosure, and powered separately from this. So there would just be some type of digital link. The digital activity in the analog boxes would be minimal. This probably is not required for meeting measureable performance specs. Rather, it is an audiophile aesthetic issue, trying to get the lowest noise that is even arguably possible.
So, you can see, even the largest scale digidesign are not entirely to my liking.
So where does one start?
With what is available. Look at all the hardware and software compatibility, or interoperability standards.
Linux, and the low latency versions, and its audio initiatives are the most fruitful places to start.
But to meet the full specturm of the application, it is also necessary to look at closed soure software for M$. I hope this changes, but so far it is hasn't.
Ben Milstead advocates SONAR, and also Sonic Foundry's ACID Loop, and also Cold Fusion, and also Propeller Head Reason, and more.
So I am interested in any comments on my editorial here, but also on any further softwares to throw into this mix, and on any accounts of experience or knowledge of the software's on the table.
ZMB
Cross posted at Audio Explorations, now 14 groups
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_digital?lnk=oa&hl=en
Come join in, Digest Email recommended.
But I am moving rapidly.
I'm going to try to articulate how I am seeing this at this time.
The PC is going to be the master source for any user defined software system. You will always want to have a full PC somewhere in the system. You will want internet access, media for doing data backups, the ability to edit one file while compiling another, a big hard disk, and a fan to cool the big banks of hot DRAMs that let it work quickly.
A full PC will always be part of the system.
But that does not mean it has to be the only part, or even that it has to be on all the time.
Likewise, I feel that a sophisticated multitrack recording and editing capability should be part of the system, as well as music synthesis, sequencing, patch editing, and more.
Idealy, this would all be open source.
If a PC is the master source, what other futher downline nodes might their be?
A diskless fanless PC, like in the jukebox project could be next. It will have the full display which makes the nice user interface. It might run a low latency Linux.
Futher down? I still would feel better if the real time core was done by a CPU totally decoupled from hard disks, or general operating systems with file structures and all.
I guess this could be a diskless fanless PC running different code, but probably not. Really it could be something very simple. It could be just an evaluation board from a processor maker.
Maybe it is what is built into some sound cards for PCs? I would still rather it be more detached, more digitally isolated from the Linux system.
I would also prefere if the analog portions of this system were in a separate enclosure, and powered separately from this. So there would just be some type of digital link. The digital activity in the analog boxes would be minimal. This probably is not required for meeting measureable performance specs. Rather, it is an audiophile aesthetic issue, trying to get the lowest noise that is even arguably possible.
So, you can see, even the largest scale digidesign are not entirely to my liking.
So where does one start?
With what is available. Look at all the hardware and software compatibility, or interoperability standards.
Linux, and the low latency versions, and its audio initiatives are the most fruitful places to start.
But to meet the full specturm of the application, it is also necessary to look at closed soure software for M$. I hope this changes, but so far it is hasn't.
Ben Milstead advocates SONAR, and also Sonic Foundry's ACID Loop, and also Cold Fusion, and also Propeller Head Reason, and more.
So I am interested in any comments on my editorial here, but also on any further softwares to throw into this mix, and on any accounts of experience or knowledge of the software's on the table.
ZMB
Cross posted at Audio Explorations, now 14 groups
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_digital?lnk=oa&hl=en
Come join in, Digest Email recommended.
PS:
If anyone wants to talk about the compatibility of SMPS with Linear Audio, or if anyone wants to talk about the use of JFETs, these are excellent places:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1016880#post1016880
And at audio explorations
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_preamp_source/browse_thread/thread/844f6608b617ae28?hl=en
If anyone wants to talk about the compatibility of SMPS with Linear Audio, or if anyone wants to talk about the use of JFETs, these are excellent places:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1016880#post1016880
And at audio explorations
http://groups.google.com/group/audioex_preamp_source/browse_thread/thread/844f6608b617ae28?hl=en
Sorry I've been absent for so long. There are some upheavils which are taking place in mylife, and so I am running on adrenaline trying to deal with them. Major disruption is inevitable. But rest assured, I'm here for the long term.
I've been reading "Modern Recording Techniques" 6th edition, 2005, by David Miles Huber, and Robert E. Runstein.
I think a plan for Open Source digital audio has to include all the posibilities, including home recording. That is why I take interest in it, and try to summarize some of its key links here.
Lots of stuff made by mackie
http://mackie.com/products/digital_recording/index.html
Modern Recording Techniques website
http://modrec.com/
Talks about all the transmission standards, included AES/EBU, S/PDIF, and many many more.
Speaks of Nuendo Version 2 Media Production System for Mac or PC
www.steinberg.net, they seem to have many products.
I do understand that none of this is Open Source. But it is by looking at what the defacto standards are that the direction for Open Source is defined.
They talk about ProTools.
MusicXPC, small form factor fanless PCs
http://www.musicxpc.com/products.htm
Carillon, rack mount audio PCs
http://www.carillonusa.com/clnweb/products.jsp
Tascam, USB and MIDI interface
http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-144.html
With nice control surface, and works with Steinberg Cubase
http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-224.html
Griffin Technology, IPOD and PC and MAC audio stuff.
http://www.griffintechnology.com/
mackie's spike. I've always liked this company. Goes towards my idea of an external box.
http://mackie.com/products/spike/index.html
Twelve Tone Systems, and Cakewalk, and thier Sonar 3 studio edition software, with some interface hardware.
http://cakewalk.com/Products/hardware.asp
MOTU, Mark of the Unicorn Digital Performer, an impressive array of products
http://www.motu.com/
To Be Continued
***************
cross posted at Audio Explorations:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/audioex_digital/browse_thread/thread/2d0fd6d3020ee74e
I've been reading "Modern Recording Techniques" 6th edition, 2005, by David Miles Huber, and Robert E. Runstein.
I think a plan for Open Source digital audio has to include all the posibilities, including home recording. That is why I take interest in it, and try to summarize some of its key links here.
Lots of stuff made by mackie
http://mackie.com/products/digital_recording/index.html
Modern Recording Techniques website
http://modrec.com/
Talks about all the transmission standards, included AES/EBU, S/PDIF, and many many more.
Speaks of Nuendo Version 2 Media Production System for Mac or PC
www.steinberg.net, they seem to have many products.
I do understand that none of this is Open Source. But it is by looking at what the defacto standards are that the direction for Open Source is defined.
They talk about ProTools.
MusicXPC, small form factor fanless PCs
http://www.musicxpc.com/products.htm
Carillon, rack mount audio PCs
http://www.carillonusa.com/clnweb/products.jsp
Tascam, USB and MIDI interface
http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-144.html
With nice control surface, and works with Steinberg Cubase
http://www.tascam.com/Products/US-224.html
Griffin Technology, IPOD and PC and MAC audio stuff.
http://www.griffintechnology.com/
mackie's spike. I've always liked this company. Goes towards my idea of an external box.
http://mackie.com/products/spike/index.html
Twelve Tone Systems, and Cakewalk, and thier Sonar 3 studio edition software, with some interface hardware.
http://cakewalk.com/Products/hardware.asp
MOTU, Mark of the Unicorn Digital Performer, an impressive array of products
http://www.motu.com/
To Be Continued
***************
cross posted at Audio Explorations:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/audioex_digital/browse_thread/thread/2d0fd6d3020ee74e
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