I have a sony CDP-C900 that I want to build a DAC for it only has a toslink output though so I was wondering which DAC I should build and if I should build or buy a toslink to coax converter.
I dont want to spend very much money, right now I am considering the TNT-Audio Convertus and the SDS Labs transistor DAC.
Thanks,
Lyle Gordon
P.S. I want to use this dac even after I upgrade my integrated amp and speakers to something better. (aka I want it to perform well)
I dont want to spend very much money, right now I am considering the TNT-Audio Convertus and the SDS Labs transistor DAC.
Thanks,
Lyle Gordon
P.S. I want to use this dac even after I upgrade my integrated amp and speakers to something better. (aka I want it to perform well)
s0rce,
you will find that there appears to be very little useful comparative information between various DIY DACs. No measurements and hardly any third party objective listening comparisons.
DIY community operates mostly out of joy to build and to solve problems and not many are interested in whether the DAC they design is better than some brand XYZ. They build it and end up tweaking it, because DIY is about learning and building.
Of course, if you ask anyone, they will say that the DAC they designed themself is the best
My suggestion is to pick the most expensive, most talked about, least conroversial and least difficult DAC that you can still build yourself (and get parts for without spending huge amounts of time searching).
The ones you mentioned could be good start, perhaps.
I'd also pay attention to at least the described sound quality (if listening comments exists) and immunity to jitter. YOu should aim for the kind of soudn quality you prefer yourself and also for high input jitter immunity. Different DIY DACs will more than likely have different sonic characteristics.
Best of luck with your search.
regards,
Halcyon
you will find that there appears to be very little useful comparative information between various DIY DACs. No measurements and hardly any third party objective listening comparisons.
DIY community operates mostly out of joy to build and to solve problems and not many are interested in whether the DAC they design is better than some brand XYZ. They build it and end up tweaking it, because DIY is about learning and building.
Of course, if you ask anyone, they will say that the DAC they designed themself is the best
My suggestion is to pick the most expensive, most talked about, least conroversial and least difficult DAC that you can still build yourself (and get parts for without spending huge amounts of time searching).
The ones you mentioned could be good start, perhaps.
I'd also pay attention to at least the described sound quality (if listening comments exists) and immunity to jitter. YOu should aim for the kind of soudn quality you prefer yourself and also for high input jitter immunity. Different DIY DACs will more than likely have different sonic characteristics.
Best of luck with your search.
regards,
Halcyon
Hi Lyle,
Half a year ago I was faced with the same question. I finally obtained a ready-made M-Audio SuperDac for around $250. It has Tos-link, coax and EBU inputs. And, despite Halcyon’s comments about sound: It sounds good. It is well build with first rate components. For the amount of money I can’t do it better myself. And there is a load of possibilities for upgrading if you like.
Half a year ago I was faced with the same question. I finally obtained a ready-made M-Audio SuperDac for around $250. It has Tos-link, coax and EBU inputs. And, despite Halcyon’s comments about sound: It sounds good. It is well build with first rate components. For the amount of money I can’t do it better myself. And there is a load of possibilities for upgrading if you like.
Comparing DAC's
Hi Halcyon,
I did compare a lot of DAC's all NON-OS.
See f.a.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7967
I liked the TDA1543 the most, then AD1865N-K then AD1865N, then perhaps TDA1541AS1 then????? I found the TDA1543 having the most natural analog like sound. Also the TDA1543 lacks all listening fatigue of the AD1865N-K. The only aspect of the AD185N-K I find better is the bass. Slightly more controlled and more slamm.
As a foot note I feel the AD DAC's are far more jitter sensitive than the TDA DAC's. Also the AD DAC's react far more allergic to a metastable when I apply my Asynchronous Reclocker. [Reclocking LATCH, BITCLOCK and DATA with 74VHC74's]. And the Asynchronous Reclocker brings more improvement on the AD1865N-K than on the TDA1543.
Please note my current Asynchronous Reclocker does NOT produce metastables as a second flip-flop is incorporated in the design.
Lyle you can't go wrong with the TNT-convertus.
Two points I disagree :
Paralling the TDA1543 smears the highs.
+5V supply produces the best sound. 8 or 9 V gives the highs a agressive metallic quality. Passive conversion gives a lack of dynamics in the music. The TDA1543 is supply sensitive. A 7805 or LT1086 or LM1086 might not be the final solution. And a Jung regulator sounds hopeless in this application. Currently I am experimenting with a triple Darlington connected capacity multiplier without any feedback from the output. Will post the schematic shortly.
The 2mA maximum output current of the TDA1543 as promised in the datasheet is not obtained. I get 2 V out with a 2k55 feedback resistor from output of IV-converter to inverting input. Non-inverting input connected to ground. With a resistor connected from Vref to ground the offset can be nulled but sound was better without any resistor here, regardless of value.
Hi Halcyon,
I did compare a lot of DAC's all NON-OS.
See f.a.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7967
I liked the TDA1543 the most, then AD1865N-K then AD1865N, then perhaps TDA1541AS1 then????? I found the TDA1543 having the most natural analog like sound. Also the TDA1543 lacks all listening fatigue of the AD1865N-K. The only aspect of the AD185N-K I find better is the bass. Slightly more controlled and more slamm.
As a foot note I feel the AD DAC's are far more jitter sensitive than the TDA DAC's. Also the AD DAC's react far more allergic to a metastable when I apply my Asynchronous Reclocker. [Reclocking LATCH, BITCLOCK and DATA with 74VHC74's]. And the Asynchronous Reclocker brings more improvement on the AD1865N-K than on the TDA1543.
Please note my current Asynchronous Reclocker does NOT produce metastables as a second flip-flop is incorporated in the design.
Lyle you can't go wrong with the TNT-convertus.
Two points I disagree :
Paralling the TDA1543 smears the highs.
+5V supply produces the best sound. 8 or 9 V gives the highs a agressive metallic quality. Passive conversion gives a lack of dynamics in the music. The TDA1543 is supply sensitive. A 7805 or LT1086 or LM1086 might not be the final solution. And a Jung regulator sounds hopeless in this application. Currently I am experimenting with a triple Darlington connected capacity multiplier without any feedback from the output. Will post the schematic shortly.
The 2mA maximum output current of the TDA1543 as promised in the datasheet is not obtained. I get 2 V out with a 2k55 feedback resistor from output of IV-converter to inverting input. Non-inverting input connected to ground. With a resistor connected from Vref to ground the offset can be nulled but sound was better without any resistor here, regardless of value.
Elso,
I appreciate your efforts and I'm sure many others do as well.
However, I do believe the poster was asking for a ready-made schematics and parts list and maybe even instructions for assembling a DIY DAC.
A comparison of DAC ICs is not the same as comparison of fully assempled DIY kits (with differing design choices) compared by somebody else than their actual designer/builder
I'd really like to see a DIY DAC shoot-out.
People get together with various designs, listen to them and also let people who have not designed any of them to listen to the whole bunch.
Then everybody posts their opinions publicly.
It doesn't have to degraded to the level of 'A is better than B', but it could provide very useful clues to various DIY DAC kits sonic character and how people in general perceive them.
This kind of get-togethers happen a lot in the speaker DIY community.
Why not in the DAC DIY community
regards,
Halcyon
I appreciate your efforts and I'm sure many others do as well.
However, I do believe the poster was asking for a ready-made schematics and parts list and maybe even instructions for assembling a DIY DAC.
A comparison of DAC ICs is not the same as comparison of fully assempled DIY kits (with differing design choices) compared by somebody else than their actual designer/builder
I'd really like to see a DIY DAC shoot-out.
People get together with various designs, listen to them and also let people who have not designed any of them to listen to the whole bunch.
Then everybody posts their opinions publicly.
It doesn't have to degraded to the level of 'A is better than B', but it could provide very useful clues to various DIY DAC kits sonic character and how people in general perceive them.
This kind of get-togethers happen a lot in the speaker DIY community.
Why not in the DAC DIY community
regards,
Halcyon
Complete DIY DAC kit
Halcyon,
I shared my experiences as I feel these are appreciated by other forummembers. Also get a lot of e-mail where I talk in more detail about this subject. The title of the thread was <B>cheap DIY DAC</B>. I belive any DAC with the TDA1543 will be simple and cheap as the TDA1543 is about US$ 1.
If you want a complete cheap simple DAC-project go for Scott Nixon's kit:
http://home.triad.rr.com/scottnixon/dac.htm
Halcyon,
I shared my experiences as I feel these are appreciated by other forummembers. Also get a lot of e-mail where I talk in more detail about this subject. The title of the thread was <B>cheap DIY DAC</B>. I belive any DAC with the TDA1543 will be simple and cheap as the TDA1543 is about US$ 1.
If you want a complete cheap simple DAC-project go for Scott Nixon's kit:
http://home.triad.rr.com/scottnixon/dac.htm
Although I would like the same I think the TDA1543 DAC's are slowly becoming de defacto nr. 1 in DIY DAC land.( regardless of the used topology)
Must be the simplicity I thought at first. Or the cost. Must sound like s**t I thought too.
At first you laugh about this El Cheapo, then you build it and you compare it to other stuff. And the moment will come that you seriously ask yourself why this El Cheapo sounds better than your friends $$ 24 bit 96 kHz DAC...
Just this evening I entered TDA1543 in Google. I was astonished by the enormous amount of DIY schematics of more or less the same DAC. Locations vary from Hong Kong to Germany. I certainly won't be surprised that the TDA1543 will be obsolete in a short time considered its popularity today and the fact that it is out of production.Thank God that there aren't Silver Crown's of this one.
As a complete DIY project including PCB I can recommend Scott Nixon's variant, like Elso did. He launched his new tubed baby this week.
In the late 2000's TDA1543's will be more valuable than gold
Yesterday I had a bad experience with my local TDA supplier. I ordered 30 and received 3, they are out of stock :-(
There must be large supplies left all over the world, but I wonder for how long. Luckily, I have still a hand full...
If you want to make something very simple and good try to find a used Philips CD880, CD960 or something comparable. They have I2s dacs (TDA1541). It's fairly easy to make a small print with a regulator, TDA1543 and some resistors and caps as a DAC. The TDA1543 DAC can be directly connected to the cd-player without sp/dif receiver. I you really want to go all the way insert a good quality clock (from Elso or Guido) and connect the clock also directly to the DAC chip. You will have a very good built in DAC then for <$40 (with three black gates).
You will have to insert a receiver chip if you want to have a sp/dif input for the computer or so.
BTW: the transports of the two mentioned cd-players are considered as very good.
Good luck,
Fedde
Yesterday I had a bad experience with my local TDA supplier. I ordered 30 and received 3, they are out of stock :-(
There must be large supplies left all over the world, but I wonder for how long. Luckily, I have still a hand full...
If you want to make something very simple and good try to find a used Philips CD880, CD960 or something comparable. They have I2s dacs (TDA1541). It's fairly easy to make a small print with a regulator, TDA1543 and some resistors and caps as a DAC. The TDA1543 DAC can be directly connected to the cd-player without sp/dif receiver. I you really want to go all the way insert a good quality clock (from Elso or Guido) and connect the clock also directly to the DAC chip. You will have a very good built in DAC then for <$40 (with three black gates).
You will have to insert a receiver chip if you want to have a sp/dif input for the computer or so.
BTW: the transports of the two mentioned cd-players are considered as very good.
Good luck,
Fedde
The TDA1543 is indeed a very interesting part for diy.....
When I started to think of building a dac first I came to the AD1855, then PCM1716 and other SigmaDelta´s..... But...SSOP!
Realy tough things..... they are hard on the edge for diy etching....
At the end I found the "old" TDA´s wich were DIL´s and the diy community sayed they sound better than SigmaDelta ones....
tomorrow I will start etching, PCM1716, WM8716, AD1855, PCM1738, TDA1541, TDA1543 all connected to CS8412...
....feeded by a CD-ROM
and all with NE5532 after it...
it´s not thought to be High End... only for what gives me the best base for further investigation...
I´m so nervous what will sound the best.....
When I started to think of building a dac first I came to the AD1855, then PCM1716 and other SigmaDelta´s..... But...SSOP!
Realy tough things..... they are hard on the edge for diy etching....
At the end I found the "old" TDA´s wich were DIL´s and the diy community sayed they sound better than SigmaDelta ones....
tomorrow I will start etching, PCM1716, WM8716, AD1855, PCM1738, TDA1541, TDA1543 all connected to CS8412...
....feeded by a CD-ROM
and all with NE5532 after it...
it´s not thought to be High End... only for what gives me the best base for further investigation...
I´m so nervous what will sound the best.....
Hi Fedde,
I respect your opinion and advise but please explain why one would change his TDA1541A for a TDA1543
If one has an *old* Philips cd player it is IMO more clever to get rid of the SAA7220P/B and put a transformer/tube buffer behind the TDA1541A. But as you posted: it is possible.
As stated before I wouldn't do this kind of surgery to a Marantz CD80
By the way I am the guy you see strolling around bazars to find those old pieces of Philips jewelry
I have that psycho swing-arm glare in my eyes.
I respect your opinion and advise but please explain why one would change his TDA1541A for a TDA1543
If one has an *old* Philips cd player it is IMO more clever to get rid of the SAA7220P/B and put a transformer/tube buffer behind the TDA1541A. But as you posted: it is possible.
As stated before I wouldn't do this kind of surgery to a Marantz CD80
By the way I am the guy you see strolling around bazars to find those old pieces of Philips jewelry
I have that psycho swing-arm glare in my eyes.
DIY shootout
i'm with you, halcyon.
i am a little bit wary of building a DAC. i do want to build one, however i don't want to build one and then decide it wasn't what i expected. although an ultra-simple one would be a great first DAC, i would prefer to build one that was perhaps a little more involved, but more rewarding at the end of it all.
a shoot out would be a fantastic idea.
i would love to be able to build one like Peter, but not just yet. great work!
i'm with you, halcyon.
i am a little bit wary of building a DAC. i do want to build one, however i don't want to build one and then decide it wasn't what i expected. although an ultra-simple one would be a great first DAC, i would prefer to build one that was perhaps a little more involved, but more rewarding at the end of it all.
a shoot out would be a fantastic idea.
i would love to be able to build one like Peter, but not just yet. great work!
Do the DAC shootout !
If people are uncertain they end up with nothing. Some build stuff while others wait and wait...
DIY is about building things and learning. How many times I designed a PCB for a DAC and asked people if they wanted one to try out ? The people that preferred to wait for the results of others that built it were always too late when they decided they wanted one.
If you like to make decisions like this I guess it is more practical to go to a shop and compare DAC's of the well known brands.
If people are uncertain they end up with nothing. Some build stuff while others wait and wait...
DIY is about building things and learning. How many times I designed a PCB for a DAC and asked people if they wanted one to try out ? The people that preferred to wait for the results of others that built it were always too late when they decided they wanted one.
If you like to make decisions like this I guess it is more practical to go to a shop and compare DAC's of the well known brands.
ouch!
i do see your point though, jean-paul. any ULTRA-EASY ones you could suggest then? i guess it is the best way to go. i only wanted to do it to go with an old cd-rom i have lying around (i have heard the results are very promising).
thanks for the advice. i'm only new to this, so all advice gladly taken
i do see your point though, jean-paul. any ULTRA-EASY ones you could suggest then? i guess it is the best way to go. i only wanted to do it to go with an old cd-rom i have lying around (i have heard the results are very promising).
thanks for the advice. i'm only new to this, so all advice gladly taken
Hi Jean-Paul, I couldn' t agree more! This forum is about DIY! It can be considered as a learning process and it is a lot of fun, except for the moments I see smoke rising out of my equipment....
Being unsatisfied with the sound of my stock Sony CDP I bought the Alchemy DDE v1.1. This was much better but could be improved tremendously by tweaking. Later on I built my own DAC and sound quality has reached a incredible high level. What if I sat back and waited for a new add-on-box DAC....? And I believed all the hipe and crap of the commercial talk?
Being unsatisfied with the sound of my stock Sony CDP I bought the Alchemy DDE v1.1. This was much better but could be improved tremendously by tweaking. Later on I built my own DAC and sound quality has reached a incredible high level. What if I sat back and waited for a new add-on-box DAC....? And I believed all the hipe and crap of the commercial talk?
Hi,
Just saw Scott Nixon's DAC and it really seems simple!!
I have a Marantz CD48 with coaxial output and as I heard that its transport is good I have been thinking about making a DAC for some time. But normally circuits are a bit complex. But if I can get my hands on a schematic so simple I might give it a try. Something with no PCB (I have a tube pre and now a Zen V4 p-2-p wired). Anyone knows something like that (and of course better than the stock one in my CDP)?
Just saw Scott Nixon's DAC and it really seems simple!!
I have a Marantz CD48 with coaxial output and as I heard that its transport is good I have been thinking about making a DAC for some time. But normally circuits are a bit complex. But if I can get my hands on a schematic so simple I might give it a try. Something with no PCB (I have a tube pre and now a Zen V4 p-2-p wired). Anyone knows something like that (and of course better than the stock one in my CDP)?
Hi Miguel,
Please see this links for schematics :
http://pub4.ezboard.com/ffakeidsfrm1
http://www.geocities.com/rjm003.geo/rjmaudio/diy_dac.html
http://home.student.utwente.nl/f.s.bouwman/audio/nonoz.html
http://home.triad.rr.com/scottnixon/dac.htm
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/CD-Player-Projekt/CD.htm
Forget the crap about feeding the TDA with 8V though. The first schematic had this 8V. Everybody copied it like sheep do the things other sheep do.
I actually read on one of the sites that they used 8V because everybody does !! And please use the output filter caps.
A PCB really is recommended in the case of DAC's. The possibility of hard wiring atrackts a lot of tube guys for some reason
Please see this links for schematics :
http://pub4.ezboard.com/ffakeidsfrm1
http://www.geocities.com/rjm003.geo/rjmaudio/diy_dac.html
http://home.student.utwente.nl/f.s.bouwman/audio/nonoz.html
http://home.triad.rr.com/scottnixon/dac.htm
http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Leserbriefe/CD-Player-Projekt/CD.htm
Forget the crap about feeding the TDA with 8V though. The first schematic had this 8V. Everybody copied it like sheep do the things other sheep do.
I actually read on one of the sites that they used 8V because everybody does !! And please use the output filter caps.
A PCB really is recommended in the case of DAC's. The possibility of hard wiring atrackts a lot of tube guys for some reason
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