New Audigy 2 - 24/192Khz

[jgwinner]

Folks:

The sound blaster people have recently come out with an "Audigy 2".

Tom's Hardware has a good review of it

Features are as follows:

Supports DVD Audio;
Plays at 24 bits/ 192 kHz;
Plays and records at 24 bits/ 96 kHz;
Dolby Digital EX decoding;
Seven analog outputs;
Supports 6.1 sound in games and movies;
THX Certification;
Signal-to-noise ratio of 106 dB;
CMSS 3D.

Tom's testing showed the following:

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB: +0.01, -0.05 Excellent
Noise level, dB (A): -98.1 Excellent
Dynamic range, dB (A): 95.1 Excellent
THD, %: 0.0015 Excellent
IMD, %: 0.0069 Very good
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -89.8 Excellent

I think I'm going to use this instead of an M-Audio 410 (gasp!
) as the software compatibility is slightly higher in case I want to play some games in the living room on the projection TV with 7 speakers

Comments? Does this look good to y'all?

 

[jgwinner]

In comparison, the Delta 410:

Delta 410 Specifications:
• 4x10 24-bit/96khz full-duplex recording interface.
• High dynamic range (A-weighted measured): D/A 101.5 dB, A/D 99.6 dB.
• Low distortion (measured THD @ 0dBFS): A/D and D/A less than 0.002%.
• Frequency Response:
22-22kHz, -0.2,-0.4dB @48kHz
22-40kHz, -0.2,-0.7dB @96kHz
• All data paths support up to 24bit/96kHz performance, no upgrades necessary.
• Comprehensive digital mixing, routing, and monitoring capabilities with included Delta Control Panel software.
• Hardware sample-accurate sync will allow linking of multiple Delta units.

I think one big difference (other than audio quality) is the Delta can be bridged to multiple units.

 

[JBL]

I can't remember where but I read that this card does not suport 24bit even if it's advertise.

 

[jgwinner]

Jonathan:

Which card:
1) Audigy (correct)
2) Audigy 2 (whole new card, barely out)
or
3) Delta 410?

 

[Circlotron]

Soundcard on it's lonesome

Has anyone ever run a souncard with just the minumum supporting logic and stuff rather than a full blown pc? The idea is to get it away from all the noise of the pc environment. Would be interesting I think.

 

[johan]

The newest Creative soundcard is still a product that makes you wonder why didn't they take the full step and make every feature fully work that they have available. I still am afraid that it is impossible to get 1 to 1 perfect digital copies by recording with this card. Like every SBLive until now I am sure this one also internally converts the digital input signal. And the DVD audio is only available as analog line out and not at all at the digital outputs!

 

[JBL]

I would prefer the m-audio audiophile sound card. True 24/96 input-output.
It also come with S/PDIF input and output.

And the best of all it's not using those small 1/8 inchs connector where I always broke a cable in, use RCA instead.

 

[MWP]

Its a POS as is all Creative hardware.
Stats look good, but we all know how truthful stats can be

I cant remeber its exact limitations, but there are plenty.
It may have good quality DACs/Codecs, but the DSP resamples everything to hell reducing sound quality a heap.

Maybe im just a bit sour because of the fact Creative forced the only real innovative sound card company (Aureal) to go out of business through expensive law suits.

 

[MWP]

Re: Soundcard on it's lonesome

Has anyone ever run a souncard with just the minumum supporting logic and stuff rather than a full blown pc? The idea is to get it away from all the noise of the pc environment. Would be interesting I think.

Im thinking about that.
I might look at getting the I2S signals off my sound card and build an external DAC.

I HATE background pc noise in my sound.

 

[jgwinner]

I cant remeber its exact limitations, but there are plenty.

I'm a bit confused as to why everyone says REMEMBER when this is something that's only been on the shelves for a WEEK.

We are clued in that this is an Audigy 2, right? It's a whole new board

 

[weissi]

Look at the used DAC! very interessting, 3 i2s lines!!! But is there a good way to get that signals out of the box???

 

[MWP]

I'm a bit confused as to why everyone says REMEMBER when this is something that's only been on the shelves for a WEEK.

We are clued in that this is an Audigy 2, right? It's a whole new board

A week?
Not quite... reviews have been around for a long time and there are plenty of ppl with them here in Australia.

If you want sound card reviews, head to www.3dss.com .

The Audigy2 is a new board, but the DSP it uses isnt too different from the first Audigy.

 

[jgwinner]

MWP:

What I was basing my note on was the fact that someone said it wasn't true 24/96. The Audigy isn't, but the Audigy 2 is.

I bought it so I'll give everyone a listening test soon

I'm still working on my Thor's and my 6 channel Opti-MOS though, so a true test will have to wait until next week.

The main reason I got this board as opposed to the M-Audio Delta 410 is that this board will be more compatible for the occasional game I play.

I had thought of routing the output of my old SB Live! into the inputs of the 410 to get around this problem. If the Audigy 2 doesn't sound great, this is what I'll do.

 

[kristijan-k]

Hello,

I am also looking for the new audio card.
I find two of them that I would like to use.
Both are from the Creative Labs, and the price
is the same.

- EXTIGY
- AUDIGY 2

Which one to choose ?
Does someone tried and compared them both ?

Best regards,
Kristijan Kljucaric
http://web.vip.hr/pcb-design.vip

 

[halcyon]

Bad news about Aidigy 2

Sorry to rain on your parade, but Audigy 2 (Yes, Audigy 2, not just Audigy 1):

1) Resamples all 44.1 kHz / 16 bit data to 48 kHz. You cannot circumvent this. This is due to the AC97 mixer and the associated hardware designed around it. The upsampling algorithm produces some peculiar effects, if you look at the IMD data at digit-life.com tests

2) The 24/96 recording/playback ability is lost the instant you apply any sort of effect/mixer setting on the card. It will again use the same built-in mixer and after that it's down to 48 kHz, 16 bit interim, after which it is upsampled again to 24 bit and 96 kHz so it will appear 'correct' to a layman.

3) Audigy 2 only supports Asio 1 interface and cannot be upgraded to support Asio2.

Otherwise it looks like a nice card, but it cannot pass through PCM data without resampling to 48 kHz.

The only Creative card able to do that is the as of yet unreleased Audigy Platinum eX, which is a different board design and should come out Q1/2003.

Of course other manufacturers have their own 6 channel sound cards that can do bit-perfect pass through + Asio2 support (Terratec DMX 6-fire and M-Audio Revolution).

I'm not trying to put down this card, it's an excellent gaming card and a decent home theater card for DTS/DD passthrough, but for measurements or PCM playback I'd consider twice before using it for serious use.

regards,
Halcyon

 

[jgwinner]

Halcyon:

1 and 2 are issues for me, 3 I don't think is.

Do you have references for 1 and 2? I'm not disputing you, I just want to read up on it, especially as I am considering writing some custom software.

I read the review on digit-life.com and it seemed to indicate the opposite (again, not arguing, just trying to get the full story)

A frequency response will also be a useless parameter if you don't account for the fact that a manufacturer can get it wrong. The Audigy, in spite of 24bit 96kHz supported, couldn't produce the whole frequency range in this format accurately, - it converted it into 16bit 48kHz and had a bad cut in the HF audible range (attention! it's only for the 24/96 mode).

In the Audigy2 the conversion is removed and the frequency response is corrected. It would be better if Creative gave in specs the frequency response for the audible range. Luckily, it's possible with the RMAA program. Well, the Audigy2 can produce the whole range in the 24/96 mode without even a hint of any conversion and with a remarkable FR similar to that of professional cards.

I do note:

However, this time we also do have some complains. The tests results indicated that 44.1 kHz to 48 kHz unswitchable resampling is still used.

At this point, this isn't a big issue, we'll mostly be playing DVD's with this system. Still, if the Delta 410 doesn't do this it might be better.

The other advantage I'm thinking of with the Delta 410 is that multiple cards can be combined - I was thinking of digital domain bi-amping.

 

[halcyon]

References

1) Resampling 44.1 kHz / 16 bit data

Refs:

- http://www6.tomshardware.com/video/02q4/021106/audigy2-10.html
- ... and the Digit-Life review you already read.

2) Resampling of 96 kHz / 24 bit data if effects are used

Refs:

- http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/features/articles/CreativeDublin/CreativePT.html
- http://www6.tomshardware.com/video/02q4/021106/audigy2-20.html

cheers,
Halcy

 

[jgwinner]

Ok, thanks. I didn't read the interview part of Tom's hardware's review.

I don't usually apply effects, but I'd wonder if the same engine will resample if I use speaker calibration.

Damn!

 

[Brian Guralnick]

If you think any Creative Junk is any good, just try this:

Make a 10 minute 440Hz sine wave sample at around 10% intensity.

Get a pair of headphones, turn up the volume to full & listen to it for a few minutes while you work.

You'll see what I mean...

Having an external DAC wont solve the problem, it's been there since the first SBLive Value.

 

[theturtle]

From what I've read, it doesn't relly matter that the audigy 2 disables spdif out when playing dvd audio, as spdif doesn't have the bandwidth to do dvd-a anyway. If your looking for dvd-audio passthrough you'll need a card with firewire output for dvd-a. Which afaik is not around at the moment.

chris(TheTurtle)