Nonoz DAC page

[ultranalog]

No, I had hoped for some discussion based on listening facts instead I found yet another technical engineer telling me I just have to explain it, where others did that 5 years ago.

You see what I mean ?

Not really. Why would I contradict myself. I have listened to non-os and quickly went back to oversampling. So the listening facts were clear on the previous page.
And if the facts are 5 years old, where are they?

@Per: that Crystal dac can be made to sound great with a minimum of external components, thanks for the link.

Remco

[tschrama]

@ultranalog, allthough your comments are generally very welcome, you are beginning to loose symphathie due to the tone of your posts.

@JP, cann't wait to build one myself and compare it with my philips CD723, CS 24bit 196KHz, and my CS4334 Rod Elliott's DAC's. I think will incorporate a BJT active output stage and a analog 1st or 2nd order (bessel ?) low-pass characteristic.

@Per, just finished my Rod Elliott's DAC's this weekend. To my ears it sounds decent at least, but not excellent (yet). I'll keep it playing for some more days before I make my final comments.


Be nice fellows


Greetings,
Thijs

[ultranalog]

[B]@ultranalog, allthough your comments are generally very welcome, you are beginning to loose symphathie due to the tone of your posts.

Well, I'll admit I could have been nicer. But I won't tolerate being called names just for pointing out facts (by someone who has 'Time for the truth' in his signature, no less), and have reported that post. I'm not trying to 'win' a discussion. Instead I've provided information on the true cause of distortion in the multibit converters, along with a solution. 'Just listen to it' is not a valid argument in a discussion, especially when one doesn't know whether that has been done.

Remco

[peranders]

Originally posted by tschrama
@Per, just finished my Rod Elliott's DAC's this weekend. To my ears it sounds decent at least, but not excellent (yet). I'll keep it playing for some more days before I make my final comments.

I think this discussion is about different things. As a DIY project I think the CS4334 is splendid but also this chip is a low cost chip with "worse" performance than the best. Also to make a pcb and squeeze out EVERYTHING from a CS43122/AK4395 and simliar chip is not for an amateur.

Originally posted by tschrama
Be nice fellows

[fedde]

I do not feel attacked at all, well maybe now...

You're right but I merely advised his page for the basic schematic and the hints for PCB design. Richard Murdey and Scott Nixon are the men that began with this schematic and Richard is the only one that shows different PCB designs. Everybody else followed this design and tweaked it. I did, you did certainly too.
Don not act like you invented this stuff.

It's true that Scott Nixon has done a lot of work on the DAC. But you can't say he is really informative on his page. As you can read on my page, I fully admit that the design was not made by me. The only thing I was did was trying a lot of tweaks described on the forum. So I really don't understand your comment. I am just trying to be helpful for people that want to build a DAC. In my humble opinion both Richard's and Scott's pages do not have enough information for starters, but they are also helpful.

The Monkeysect filter is an improvement that follows in the learning curve of building this DAC. I think you didn't implement it as well when you first build it. It's part of the tweaking.

What do you mean ? I found the filter on the tweakers as. and tried it as a tweak. I listened to the difference.

Fedde

[Elso Kwak]

Hi fedde,
There are numerous websites featuring the TDA1543 DAC NON-OS.
I feel the merit of yours is you have incorporated the Wildmonkeysects loopfilter for the PLL of the CS8412 and my Asynchronous Reclocker. In fact your are the second to have adopted it. Hopefully the result is more than the sum of the parts.
Of course you can proceed and install my interface with the AD8561 comparator between coxcable and CS8412, feed the PLL with low-noise 5V, switch over to TDA1545 etc.

[planet10]

fedde,

I was at your page just the other day. You do a service to the community by providing information.

I personally have no opinion on DACs because i have no experience with them. My CD collection is almost up to 30 vrs my vinyl collection of 5k+ so i'm going to be one of those that just skips over the CD -- a step backward in my opinion that let some people make a lot of money. I am amazed that people have perservered and dragged so much performance out of such a flawed media. Also one of the reasons why SE tube amps have made such a comeback in that the combination with CDs ends up in a system where they theoretical deficiencies of each tend to cancel to make music.

The whole issue of the NOS DAC is quite interesting. In theory it should suck (and i have enuff theoretical background -- degree in math -- to understand why). But on the net, in the magazines, and from locals of whom i have respect it seems that many people like how they sound. And if they like it, who am i to say what they should like, as long as we can each sit down and enjoy the music coming out of our systems.

I see the debate much as the arguements for and against SE tube amps, yet SE amps have firmly entrenched themselves because people enjoy listening to them.

So lets stop this "it sucks", "it doesn't suck" bickering. It accomplishes nothing except establish what side of the fence people are on.

One thing i can say about NOS DACs is that their simplicity, like the SE tube amp, makes them more approachable to the less experienced DIYer and as such brings more people into this growing, rich & vibrant community. And that is a good thing.

Now back to that 180g pressing of Patricia Barber

dave

[Fred Dieckmann]

"It's true that Scott Nixon has done a lot of work on the DAC. But you can't say he is really informative on his page."

Scott Nixon is selling kits. He has done an incredible amount of work on the DAC kit including a great PCB design, component voicing, measurements, and good documentaion. He is a DAC designer on the my short list of the best I have heard. And l have followed his work for well over a decade. He has developed a great kit at a reasonable price. He even has levels of component choices to make it an even better value for the thrifty DIYer. This is not a trival effort but a truly outstanding sounding DAC and amoung the best I have heard. I know. I have one. Give the man some credit and don't steal intellectual property and post it all over the WEB. The first copy of his schematic I see here will let everyone find out what a real ******** I can be! And I will be in contact with the moderators so fast you won't believe it. Scott has been very supportive to his customer questions and a contributer to this is several other forums with unselfish advice. He has an knowledge of high end design and history that is stagering and is on my very short list gurus. He has been a pricless resource of audio knowledge to me and many others and has never recieved proper recognition.

Fred Dieckmann

[planet10]

Originally posted by Fred Dieckmann
Scott Nixon is selling kits. He has done an incredible amount of work on the DAC kit including a great PCB design, component voicing, measurements, and good documentaion. He is a DAC designer on the my short list of the best I have heard. And l have followed his work for well over a decade. He has developed a great kit at a reasonable price.

The local crew here also speak very highly of Scott's kit. I have had some pleasant email exchanges with him, and agree with Fred that support for his endeavor is a good thing. It is work such as his, that makes it easy for a nonDIYer to cross the threshold into our realm -- and the more of us there are, the better it is for each 7 every one of us.

Efforts like his, the AKSA, VacuumState kits, Marchand, and so forth should always be respected. Their success with our support means that the liklihood of more kits for those with just one foot in is more likely. Think of all the projects you have seen that you would be more likely to build because of the aid of a kit or semi-kit.

dave

[jean-paul]

Hello Fred,

Although I agree with you in general I have to say that your remarks about Scott's schematics are not justified. The schematic is public domain because it was an open source project at:

http://pub4.ezboard.com/ffakeidsfrm1


I verified this earlier with Richard Murdey. Scott has put a lot of effort in the kit as you stated.
Even though I am not a paying customer he always reacts on questions or remarks and he gave me advice too.

.