For some pro cards, look here:
www.terratec.com
www.midiman.com
http://www.stgd.ch/ego/WT192M/WT192M.htm
They are about a few hundred times better compared to any Soundblaster stuff, high spec cards that are as good as any audio system on the planet...
www.terratec.com
www.midiman.com
http://www.stgd.ch/ego/WT192M/WT192M.htm
They are about a few hundred times better compared to any Soundblaster stuff, high spec cards that are as good as any audio system on the planet...
as reviewed by stereophile:
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?299
they also have a new review on an audigy coming next month...
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?299
they also have a new review on an audigy coming next month...
I am not exactly a buff on high-end audio-video equipment, so maybe some of the more knowlegable people could start throwing out linux-compatible highend sound cards/tv tuners so we can get an idea of possible hardware to use. Once we get a list of hardware to use in this PC Home Theater I would be more than happy to buy all of the hardware and start programming some software to make it happen. i.e. audio/video player, customer linux distrobution, modified stripped down kernel, etc.
Let me know what you think.
Let me know what you think.
I found this motherboard http://www.ecs.com.tw/products/k7sem.htm and it is linuxbios compatible. It has two pci slots and an agp slot. It has a network card built in which maybe useful. The things I am wondering is...the cards we wanna have in this. I know for sure that one PCI slot will be taken up by the sound card, so that leaves us with an AGP slot and a PCI slot (granted we use this board or one similar). Of course we will have a graphics card in the AGP slot (i am leaning towards ATI). But the question is, do we wanna have an all in wonder with a TV tuner in the graphics card. Or do we wanna get just a standalone graphics card and get a PCI TV (+AM/FM??) Tuner. It is all up for discussion.
Now this board uses Amd cpu's, I am not sure if it will use an XP processor. Even if it doesnt, it should support up to 1.4Ghz, which should be plenty to play pretty much anything.
Personally the Setup I'd go for is a Sound Card, TV Tuner /w AM/FM tuner, and a standalone Graphics Card. And if I do decide on the All-in-wonder I will probably get a wireless network PCI card for the extra slot.
Now this board uses Amd cpu's, I am not sure if it will use an XP processor. Even if it doesnt, it should support up to 1.4Ghz, which should be plenty to play pretty much anything.
Personally the Setup I'd go for is a Sound Card, TV Tuner /w AM/FM tuner, and a standalone Graphics Card. And if I do decide on the All-in-wonder I will probably get a wireless network PCI card for the extra slot.
Smeven said:
Yes, including its own little noises. The 1.4 GHz processors (actually, pretty much all AMD processors) need hefty coolers and loud fans. Pretty noisy creatures. I use one myself, and the whine of the fan makes me turn it off whenever I'm not gonna use it for more than an hour.
I would go with a Via C3, maybe a 933 MHz. It needs no fan, just a dinky passive heatsink, consumes very little power (so a smaller, quieter PSU) and will be able to keep up with DivX (Which I doubt a 500 MHz can).
And if you wanna powerful, small, quiet machine, take a look at this:
http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/02q3/020710/index.html
If this whets your appetite, I have more where that came from.
My first choise was to use the VIA C3 Processor but there were some people that claimed the divx playback was poor. The only things that should be really cpu intensive are dvd and divx. But I think that the Video Card should do most of that, granted their video card has an Xv driver. Also, that shuttle you posted a link too....I don't think you can get the motherboard seperate from that casing (i could be wrong).
All right, then, how about the one above: Quiet AND powerful enough for lots of stuff. OR, if you want your Radeon 8500, too, how about:
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q3/shuttle-ss51/index.x?pg=1
Slap in a 2.53 GHz P3, a GeForce Ti4600, 512 MB DDR RAM, and voila! A powerhouse of a box...
Or if you wanna more or less put it together, how's this for funk:
http://www.dansdata.com/atc600.htm
Cool, huh??
And yes, I think you can get Mini-ITX/Flex ATX mobos separately:
http://www.baber.com/baber/411/asus_p4bfx.htm
http://industrial-computers.baber.com/singleboard_computers/mbdit002A.htm
Here's one of the Shuttle ones:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/iitemcom/shutfvsoc370.html
Again a bit of hunting about on newegg will get you great prices on this kind of stuff.
www.newegg.com
For a DVD/DivX kind of box, the C3 (higher speeds, 750 and above) are good enough. The integrated video in most of the small mobos are what cause the skippy playback...
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q3/shuttle-ss51/index.x?pg=1
Slap in a 2.53 GHz P3, a GeForce Ti4600, 512 MB DDR RAM, and voila! A powerhouse of a box...
Or if you wanna more or less put it together, how's this for funk:
http://www.dansdata.com/atc600.htm
Cool, huh??
And yes, I think you can get Mini-ITX/Flex ATX mobos separately:
http://www.baber.com/baber/411/asus_p4bfx.htm
http://industrial-computers.baber.com/singleboard_computers/mbdit002A.htm
Here's one of the Shuttle ones:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/iitemcom/shutfvsoc370.html
Again a bit of hunting about on newegg will get you great prices on this kind of stuff.
www.newegg.com
For a DVD/DivX kind of box, the C3 (higher speeds, 750 and above) are good enough. The integrated video in most of the small mobos are what cause the skippy playback...
you guys are going WAY overboard....
anything over like 800mhz is overkill. keep in mind, with the right programming, playing a divx only requires a 600mhz, and an mp3 can be run from about 200mhz. this is in windows...
ram at 256 is probably a good bet, just because its cheap, but more than that is silly. its just extra heat you dont need. remember, how are you going to output that 1600x1200 @ 100hz signal to a computer? svideo wont handle it, a composite cable cant handle it... you will need to get a converter for RGB DB15 to component cable... this is easy enough, but still, you cant run that high of res anyway. 1024x768 is going to be about the max it can do. so, a 32mb video card, built in will work wonders. and a slower cpu will do.
personally, im just gonna use the money and the space for HD's. i want at least 1 120gb, maybe 2 or 3. i dont want to use mp3, just save everything as straight wav format... a single 120gb HD can hold 180+ cds at full wav format. get another one, and you are at 360 cds. thats more than most people have. and if its RAID, you can have up to 4 for people who own a LOT of cds.
sometimes less is more guys. the idea here is to build a small computer, that doesnt need cooling, with massive storage, easy to use without a screen (or a nice menu-driven gui), with some quality output.
if you are going the video route (divx, dvd, vcd, etc...), i would NOT go for a tuner too. i mean realistically, EVERYTHING has a tuner. your tv can tune too... its just an added headache. try programming that into a gui. your remote control just got 10x the size... and tv tuners working under linux will be a little sketchy. but for a video card, just a nice low level geforce will do. anything else will be overkill. keep in mind, these cards only get fully utlilized in games. video out would be good of course, preferably svideo. but if not, you can convert a DB15 monitor out to component. so you can get progressive scan output for HDTV sets. (whats the point in having video output if its not a high quality feed? might as well just use a vcr.)
IMO, im not even adding video. well, only video out for a way to use the gui really... so audio will be my focus. i will probably go with that soundcard that stereophile liked. its great quality, and not that pricey (along the same price as a nice audigy). the sound output will be a lot better than any standard card. plus it has all the ins and outs you need.
anything over like 800mhz is overkill. keep in mind, with the right programming, playing a divx only requires a 600mhz, and an mp3 can be run from about 200mhz. this is in windows...
ram at 256 is probably a good bet, just because its cheap, but more than that is silly. its just extra heat you dont need. remember, how are you going to output that 1600x1200 @ 100hz signal to a computer? svideo wont handle it, a composite cable cant handle it... you will need to get a converter for RGB DB15 to component cable... this is easy enough, but still, you cant run that high of res anyway. 1024x768 is going to be about the max it can do. so, a 32mb video card, built in will work wonders. and a slower cpu will do.
personally, im just gonna use the money and the space for HD's. i want at least 1 120gb, maybe 2 or 3. i dont want to use mp3, just save everything as straight wav format... a single 120gb HD can hold 180+ cds at full wav format. get another one, and you are at 360 cds. thats more than most people have. and if its RAID, you can have up to 4 for people who own a LOT of cds.
sometimes less is more guys. the idea here is to build a small computer, that doesnt need cooling, with massive storage, easy to use without a screen (or a nice menu-driven gui), with some quality output.
if you are going the video route (divx, dvd, vcd, etc...), i would NOT go for a tuner too. i mean realistically, EVERYTHING has a tuner. your tv can tune too... its just an added headache. try programming that into a gui. your remote control just got 10x the size... and tv tuners working under linux will be a little sketchy. but for a video card, just a nice low level geforce will do. anything else will be overkill. keep in mind, these cards only get fully utlilized in games. video out would be good of course, preferably svideo. but if not, you can convert a DB15 monitor out to component. so you can get progressive scan output for HDTV sets. (whats the point in having video output if its not a high quality feed? might as well just use a vcr.)
IMO, im not even adding video. well, only video out for a way to use the gui really... so audio will be my focus. i will probably go with that soundcard that stereophile liked. its great quality, and not that pricey (along the same price as a nice audigy). the sound output will be a lot better than any standard card. plus it has all the ins and outs you need.
Hey guys im glad you are very intersted in this we will hopefuly see some LinuxBios people coming on the forums as well. OK in the beginning my (personal) intent was to just have a hi-fi super video/audio player with minimalistic linux distro JUST to play this kinda stuff. HOWEVER people jumped to some new (cool) ideas like wireless networking over the house, tuner as well, a recorder. HOWEVER. For a recorder we need quite a powerhouse, but I didnt want that in the first place. Regarding a tuner, i dunno whats the major point :/ Its too much work and would be extra extra work. The networking i first thaught not to have any at all to strip down networking over all in the custom distro. HOWEVER networking could prove a lot of cool features. I guess a way to implement these ideas is to make it above any dvd HOWEVER with all the formats it should support its already above :/
Regarding what we need well we'll just need an audio and video card. The video cards that have a tuner on them are usually downgraded and from what i heard the all in wonder raedon 9700 is weaker then the 9700. We just need high quality image and perhaps some video decompression performance enhancment.
A good fast, reliable, compatible and quiet DVD drive.
Hard drive for the software, or well if we go deeper for other purposes as well.
The C3 processor is crap according to benchmarks its worse then a P2 400MHz machine, and DVD playback is jittery and skippy while Divx playback is *perfect* but with the quality settings all the way down :/
Now we all know that we'll be using custom stripped down software so we dont have to worry of having quake9 running in the background that might slow down our mp3, or divx playback. Anywho yes, divx and dvd playback is our main performance issue, mp3 WAS an issue back in the day. We should also consider that component prices are dropping so a 1+GHz machine isnt so expensive no more.
I have a long weekend coming up I will write a design document summing up all that we've discussed in an organized little page. Also I am all the way for a mini-tx mobo BUT one that doesnt have the C3, cause its a poopy processor not enough for DVD and DivX playback. OK so it was tested under windows but still :/ We should pick a mobo that supports DDR ram and an AMD cpu, a 'real processor' not some fake x86 processor. Heh ya, and I am sure the linuxbios guys would be willing to work on a mobo we chose for this project. So lets concentrate on our hardware selection. Hmm anywho like I said I will write up that design doc it should help us be more organized
Again we need to consider the hardware components to be of hi-fi use! Price shouldnt matter for NOW. We must make the good choices of hardware combinations. Putting aside the fact that maybe the motherboard isnt supported by LinuxBios but is PERFECT, i am sure again that we can convince the linuxbios guys to support it. The sound card and video card must be QUALITY not some commercial crap with a billion audio channels, 9999 shaders of onscreen leetness. 4086x4086 texture support, etc... just quality audio and quality video.
When looking at mobos also considering the BIOS size is important! If we use LinuxBios although I dont think it should be an issue with current mobos
Regarding what we need well we'll just need an audio and video card. The video cards that have a tuner on them are usually downgraded and from what i heard the all in wonder raedon 9700 is weaker then the 9700. We just need high quality image and perhaps some video decompression performance enhancment.
A good fast, reliable, compatible and quiet DVD drive.
Hard drive for the software, or well if we go deeper for other purposes as well.
The C3 processor is crap according to benchmarks its worse then a P2 400MHz machine, and DVD playback is jittery and skippy while Divx playback is *perfect* but with the quality settings all the way down :/
Now we all know that we'll be using custom stripped down software so we dont have to worry of having quake9 running in the background that might slow down our mp3, or divx playback. Anywho yes, divx and dvd playback is our main performance issue, mp3 WAS an issue back in the day. We should also consider that component prices are dropping so a 1+GHz machine isnt so expensive no more.
I have a long weekend coming up I will write a design document summing up all that we've discussed in an organized little page. Also I am all the way for a mini-tx mobo BUT one that doesnt have the C3, cause its a poopy processor not enough for DVD and DivX playback. OK so it was tested under windows but still :/ We should pick a mobo that supports DDR ram and an AMD cpu, a 'real processor' not some fake x86 processor. Heh ya, and I am sure the linuxbios guys would be willing to work on a mobo we chose for this project. So lets concentrate on our hardware selection. Hmm anywho like I said I will write up that design doc it should help us be more organized
Again we need to consider the hardware components to be of hi-fi use! Price shouldnt matter for NOW. We must make the good choices of hardware combinations. Putting aside the fact that maybe the motherboard isnt supported by LinuxBios but is PERFECT, i am sure again that we can convince the linuxbios guys to support it. The sound card and video card must be QUALITY not some commercial crap with a billion audio channels, 9999 shaders of onscreen leetness. 4086x4086 texture support, etc... just quality audio and quality video.
When looking at mobos also considering the BIOS size is important! If we use LinuxBios although I dont think it should be an issue with current mobos
TV Cards work perfectly fine in linux. I have actually had better performance with my tv card under linux than I did in windows. But you are right, a tv card isnt neccessary.
The system that I want is something that can play audio/video, and can rip dvd's to vp5, divx5, mpeg. Also I want it to be able to rip cd's to ogg and also retrieve CDDB info from a lan (all possible with the use of monkey-media and gstreamer).
I want to have all of my audio and video in a single box without having to pull out a dvd or cd to listen or watch something.
http://freevo.sourceforge.net looks like a good project
The system that I want is something that can play audio/video, and can rip dvd's to vp5, divx5, mpeg. Also I want it to be able to rip cd's to ogg and also retrieve CDDB info from a lan (all possible with the use of monkey-media and gstreamer).
I want to have all of my audio and video in a single box without having to pull out a dvd or cd to listen or watch something.
http://freevo.sourceforge.net looks like a good project
I was hoping we could have someone as leet as you on the linux side of things dont leave man noooo 
And we could use a plugin and plugout model (what i mean by this is..) have the ability to remove a certain component from our player software. For example make it customizable in the sense that we can remove/enable the options for networking, remove/enable option for a digital recorder, remove/enable playback of certain formats etc... So we can make it appealing to the specific user not requiret them to have a TV Tuner if they dont want TV, etc...
I will probably decide which project to go with probably in the next day or so. Which ever one I decide to use i will probably start programming in a couple days. Currently I am leaning towards Freevo, because they are months ahead, and already have a strong base of code. IF you guys are really serious about this project I will stay, BUT we are gonna have to have a few C coders, I will be programming in C, and if I do this I will probably make a db backend to make things snappy. If any other programmers wanna do this, post to the list asap.
Basically, to get started, we need a User Interface, media player (via gstreamer).
Some of you think I may be getting a little premature. But there is no reason to wait. I want to get started this week. If any of you can't program or don't wanna start that soon....well...I will probably go with freevo.
Anyway, give it some thought.
Basically, to get started, we need a User Interface, media player (via gstreamer).
Some of you think I may be getting a little premature. But there is no reason to wait. I want to get started this week. If any of you can't program or don't wanna start that soon....well...I will probably go with freevo.
Anyway, give it some thought.
I am anxious about either. Freevo of course has many advantages. In order to make this a good project we want to have quite a few linux guru's, coders, packagers, testers, etc.
If we can round that up in the next couple days, I say lets do it. I am willing to code a media player, a tv guide, and I will probably just take xawtv to watch tv, and I will make a db backend (mainly for the networking advantage), also dvd/cd ripper/encoder via transcode/gstreamer would be cool to have. This will take quite a bit of time and work. But we need programmers
If we can round that up in the next couple days, I say lets do it. I am willing to code a media player, a tv guide, and I will probably just take xawtv to watch tv, and I will make a db backend (mainly for the networking advantage), also dvd/cd ripper/encoder via transcode/gstreamer would be cool to have. This will take quite a bit of time and work. But we need programmers
Okay, I'm stepping in (I think again) with some comments. First, gigatron, why are you so infatuated with linuxBios? Its not going to speed things up greatly, maybe what you really want is to be able to suspend current processing to some type of flash ram, so that you can get almost instant on, rather than linuxBios.
Secondly, don't completely discount the C3, there are more coming, and the newer ones are faster. Also, don't forget with TV, you'll only need at max, 800x600 (unless you have an HDTV, then 1024x768) and DVD's only currently run at roughly 640x480.
As to the sound card, why are you looking at a card to actually produce the analog sound anyway? Get one with digital out and tie it to either an outboard DAC or a receiver with digital in capability. Get the audio as far away from the PC as possible. (it also reduces some of the processing power needed if it doesn't have to worry about audio)
As for coders, what exactly are you looking at coding Smeven? Are you just looking to wrapper a bunch of available programs or custom writing a bunch of stuff? Are you guys looking at using a full GUI on the TV or just using a serial LCD display and a remote to do everything or what?
One last thing, gigatron, you have repeatedly said the C3 sucks, which one are you talking about? VIA currently has two mini-itx boards with the C3, one at about 500 Mhz and one at around 800Mhz, and the price difference is around $10! I can view DIVX movies on my Athlon 500 just fine, so the 800Mhz should be able to handle it as well. But it all depends what else you're putting in there as well.
Secondly, don't completely discount the C3, there are more coming, and the newer ones are faster. Also, don't forget with TV, you'll only need at max, 800x600 (unless you have an HDTV, then 1024x768) and DVD's only currently run at roughly 640x480.
As to the sound card, why are you looking at a card to actually produce the analog sound anyway? Get one with digital out and tie it to either an outboard DAC or a receiver with digital in capability. Get the audio as far away from the PC as possible. (it also reduces some of the processing power needed if it doesn't have to worry about audio)
As for coders, what exactly are you looking at coding Smeven? Are you just looking to wrapper a bunch of available programs or custom writing a bunch of stuff? Are you guys looking at using a full GUI on the TV or just using a serial LCD display and a remote to do everything or what?
One last thing, gigatron, you have repeatedly said the C3 sucks, which one are you talking about? VIA currently has two mini-itx boards with the C3, one at about 500 Mhz and one at around 800Mhz, and the price difference is around $10! I can view DIVX
movies on my Athlon 500 just fine, so the 800Mhz should be able to handle it as well. But it all depends what else you're putting in there as well.- Status
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