sacd better/same/worse dvd-a??? - diyAudio
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Old 4th August 2005, 10:00 AM   #1
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Default sacd better/same/worse dvd-a???

Can anybode explain to me what is better? sacd or dvd-a
In theory and practise? I have read articles stating that sacd is cr*p in comparison to dvd-a (single bit vs multibit/dsd vc pcm)
who has any experience with these media in practice??
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Old 4th August 2005, 10:37 AM   #2
clem_o is offline clem_o  Philippines
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Technically, both are superior to CD, but a lot of course depends on the recording engineer(s). A badly recorded SACD or DVD-A still sounds bad.

Reviews of either format seem to point to them pretty equally matched, if one has the same "music" available in both formats, where a fair comparison can be made. A lot of people do however say that there is no such thing as a player that can handle both formats and can play back both formats in 'best possible quality'. So, you'd have to actually buy an exclusive SACD (+CD) player and a DVD-A player to really hear the potential of either format at its best.

I have tried listening to both formats, on my multi-type player (one that handles both formats and plays DVD video as well) - a Pioneer DV-655A. This isn't a top-notch player at all. So far, I've not at all been impressed with DVD-A, which seems to be more 'multi-channel CD' than anything else. However SACD sound from this machine certainly is a step (leap?) above CD sound - much smoother HF, much much more detailed midrange. Bass is palpable and quick. Soundstage is more solid, and has greater depth. Does it so happen that this is an 'ok' player for SACD and lousy for DVD-A? Maybe.

It may also boil down to taste in music. DVD-A material (at least where I live) tends to go towards the more 'pop', whereas SACD releases are more into classical (i.e. Telarc) and jazz genre (with some Sony SACDs from their older pop collection, but rare - i.e. Michael Bolton, James Taylor). Some new artists trying it out like Chuck Mangione, Shania Twain, several releases from Chesky artists, Linn... This could also be the reason SACD seems to sound 'better' in the sense that the music where the technology can "really" shine, where detail, smoothness, etc are important, is being released on SACD.


Cheers!!

ps: I certainly do not agree with SACD being *..*, single-bit converters are the norm in CD players now, simply because multi-bit converters were first put into CD players, but were found to be 'wanting'...
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Old 4th August 2005, 12:51 PM   #3
knutinh is offline knutinh  Norway
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both formats enhance bandwidth and dunamic range compared to CD.

In my view, SACD is a bad design from an engineering standpoint. A completely different encoding is used, with no technical advantages (but many bull-**** advertisement advantages).

Basically, they engineered a format with better than CD sound using a completely different scheme to make pirating more difficult. That is not to say that SACD cannot sound better than DVD-A (this all depends on the mastering engineer etc). It is also not to say that SACD is an inferior choice (as it supports dual layer CD compatibility and better software support).

But as far as I can analyse the much-touted 1-bit dsd it is a bad approach from a consumer standpoint.

Knut
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Old 4th August 2005, 01:33 PM   #4
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This site has an excellent technical comparison of CD, SACD and DVD formats:
http://sound.westhost.com/cd-sacd-dvda.htm

Enjoy,
-Steve
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Old 4th August 2005, 08:18 PM   #5
dddac is offline dddac  Germany
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I am playing my selected recordings on SACD (yes, old remixes does not bring a lot) on a nicely modified sony 777 es. The spatial information and sound print details are enormous. Basically SACD is like NO dac designs, no pre ringing due too FIR filtering. I am not sure the comments I have been reading about c**p SACD are made by people who actually have been listening to a good set and nice SACD recordings. Very very nice... I agree on the multi channel CD comment from Audio DVD. It is still a tuned version of CD. SACD is a great concept and marketing is needed to get a broader public to actually buy recordings, otherwise it is not economical and the real enthousiasts will have to refrain from this great medium

br
doede
check my passive I/V - transformer 777 modification on www.dddac.de
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Old 4th August 2005, 08:47 PM   #6
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I'm glad you like SACD. My customers who have one still prefer their old CDPs that I modded to one. Some of them went as far as to sell their SACDs machines.

Jocko
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Old 4th August 2005, 09:18 PM   #7
dddac is offline dddac  Germany
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also sacd players can be (have to ?) modded. In my case succesfully.

I have heard several SACD player which do not develop the full potential and would agree that a well modded CDP gets more satisfaction.... Never the less, a good SACD player or modde one beats any modded CDP.

br
doede
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Old 4th August 2005, 09:19 PM   #8
percy is offline percy  United States
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this might help -

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...713#post577713
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Old 5th August 2005, 02:01 AM   #9
clem_o is offline clem_o  Philippines
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Hi to all,

Yep, I can certainly agree SACD players can be mod'd and can benefit a lot from the mods. There's in fact a thread on modifying a pioneer player (dv565?) and a lot have reported better sonics by changing capacitors, adding vibration dampers etc.

For those who are commenting that SACD technology is *..*, please do listen to a good unit (if you haven't) before saying anything about the technology. (And, if you have and still have the same opinion, ok, I won't argue with that).

There's one thing I think that should be pointed out, perhaps this is the reason why some SACD player buyers haven't been too happy - is that an SACD player typically doesn't play back CDs as well as a 'CD only' player. It simply isn't economically feasible to have optimized post-DA LPFs for each technology, so a tradeoff in its design occurs. In my case, I've had to stick to having two players - one for CD(only) and the other for SACD.

Cheers!


Edit: I recently had a chance to really AB test CD versus SACD - I have the Clair Marlo "Let it Go" CD (gold version, Sheffield Labs) IMHO this is one of the best CD recordings I've heard. The other day I chanced upon an SACD version - very pricey at the equivalent of ~$46 (ouch). I don't regret spending on it, after having a listen!
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Old 5th August 2005, 09:03 AM   #10
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Thanks all
I have read all articles and I am not wiser...
My question is; is it wise to invest in sacd-software and wait for better technical developments in sacd-players or will it not get any better? Or should I ignore sacd completely?
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