PCM54HP vs. PCM 63 pk- no winner! - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Source & Line > Digital Source

Digital Source Digital Players and Recorders: CD , SACD , Tape, Memory Card, etc.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd August 2005, 09:13 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
AnthonyAsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bochum,Germany
Default PCM54HP vs. PCM 63 pk- no winner!

I have right now 2 cd players at home:

Old Technics SL-P1000 which I just purchased and fixed (without any mods,based on pcm54hp)and modded Rotel 991 (installed second transformer, reference XO,opa627,PCM63p-k).

I make some comparsions between 2 player.Rotel cleraly winner on small level signals -60 and -80 db (I have Denon test cd).On Technics is very strong quantisation noise at such small levels.Basses is also better and more articulated in Rotel.

But overall Technics have more opened and dynamic sound ,more drive.

So,for me is no clear winner.

Strange.
__________________
Sleep of sanity create monsters
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 09:39 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Bernhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Munich
Hey, another maniac

I have also tested both chips.

PCM54:

11 pieces, regarding distortion all have been bad or mediocre on -60dB, adjusted MSB.
Noise was bad in Denon DCD1420, claims to be real 20bit *lol*
Noise was better in a DCD1500.

PCM63:

7 pieces, better but disappointing. Noise floor good but that makes distortion even worse.

Maybe high oversampling rate is not good for sound

Try PCM56 with MSB adjust, get a DCD1500mkII and a bunch of 25 PCM56, replace standard pots with multiturn and you will see...
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 10:00 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
AnthonyAsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bochum,Germany
Dear Bernhard!

Is pcm56 is direct replacment for pcm54?

What you think about pcm64 & 65 ? I also ordered Pioneer PD-91 Elite,in this player must be or pcm64 or 65.

And where can I buy PCM54KP? .May be you have idea. I look internet all over,unable to find this chips....
__________________
Sleep of sanity create monsters
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 10:12 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
AnthonyAsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bochum,Germany
Quote:
[
Maybe high oversampling rate is not good for sound
[/B]
Maybe .
__________________
Sleep of sanity create monsters
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 10:14 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Bernhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Munich
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyAsh
Dear Bernhard!

Is pcm56 is direct replacment for pcm54?

What you think about pcm64 & 65 ? I also ordered Pioneer PD-91 Elite,in this player must be or pcm64 or 65.

And where can I buy PCM54KP? .May be you have idea. I look internet all over,unable to find this chips....
No, PCM56 is smaller, less pins and seriell input.

I tried PCM64 in DCD1520, c r a p...
PCM54-K you will get only from CDP.

If you need some, email me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 10:24 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Bernhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Munich
The thing with TDA1541, PCM58, PCM64, PCM63, PCM54, PCM1702 is either you need too many to find a good one / pair or they are too expensive to test a lot.
PCM56: one out of ten is very good ( with adjustment ) and they are cheap if you rip them off old CDPs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 10:54 PM   #7
mlloyd1 is offline mlloyd1  United States
diyAudio Member
 
mlloyd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: illinois
Default i always liked the PCM58 DACs ...

This discussion brings back fond memories. For some time, I had an Onkyo DX-5700 (aka "old tank") a while ago that I got to sound pretty good. It used a pair of PCM58 DACs. Made some power supply changes (based on scope pictures, considered the changes improvements ) to reduce noise and (of course ) messed around with I/V converters and filters. Was actually pretty happy with it. Was JUST about to put in a low jitter clock, but the laser died and I couldn't get a replacement anymore.

mlloyd1
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2005, 11:53 PM   #8
guytou is offline guytou  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: marseille
Hi Anthony & Bernhard ,I am for a long time a PCM 56 aficionado , at this time i am using 4x PCM 56 in non-os with MSB trim inplemented , and a straight wire from the I/V resistor to the RCA jack , and the sound beats all the DACS I have tried , except maybe the 1541 for the treble quality .
For now I have to test various supply voltages , it's a bit hard because I think the MSB adjustment (since the MSB trim is taken from the -V) .
Anthony , I think that yet in 16 bits the LSB weights only about 70 microvolts , and this level could already sink in the supply noise , that could be a reason for 16 bits is already sufficient for our purpose .
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 01:28 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Bernhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Munich
Quote:
Originally posted by guytou
Hi Anthony & Bernhard ,I am for a long time a PCM 56 aficionado , at this time i am using 4x PCM 56 in non-os with MSB trim inplemented , and a straight wire from the I/V resistor to the RCA jack , and the sound beats all the DACS I have tried , except maybe the 1541 for the treble quality .
For now I have to test various supply voltages , it's a bit hard because I think the MSB adjustment (since the MSB trim is taken from the -V) .
Anthony , I think that yet in 16 bits the LSB weights only about 70 microvolts , and this level could already sink in the supply noise , that could be a reason for 16 bits is already sufficient for our purpose .
Hi,

do you use 4 x per channel or total ?

Which value for I/V ?
I read that PCM61 and also maybe PCM56 can work with high value of I/V resistor without distortion.
If treble quality is not satisfying, try other chips, performance varies a lot !
I also think that 16 bit is enough because higher linearity isn't possible anyway.
It only increases dynamic or in other words lowers noise floor, but then distortion is more noticeable.
Manufacturers claim to have 20 or more bit but my test of PCM63 and PCM1702 show other result.

PCM1702J, differential mode, left and right channel.

Click the image to open in full size.

PCM56

Click the image to open in full size.

You can see noise floor of PCM1702 is better because of more bits, but distortion is worse.
You can directly compare pictures with left side y scale.
Noise floor is -60 dB both DACs @ 1 kHz.

For PCM56 it is flat for 1702 noise gets better to 7kHz.
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2005, 06:11 PM   #10
guytou is offline guytou  France
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: marseille
Hi bernhard , i'm using 2 PCM 56 per channel with a common 750 ohms I/V resistor , but when I was with 1 DAC per channel and a resistor of 1k2 (=Zout) , i found the sound OK .
Now with 2 DACS in parallel , it's seems like I lost some accuracy , but maybe I have to try separated I/V resistors, or return to a single DAC and a active discrete I/V stage , but it's clear that the best quality I've obtained is with 1 DAC per channel for the moment.

I confirm it's worth to inplement MSB adjustment , the result is on another level (don't howl , i'm adjusting with my ears !).

Please continue your very interesting search(since I'm little involved in measure , it's useful ) and congratulations for your DAC project , I'd like to do too a 16bits/192 with a PCM 56 and a 8 bits to do a good DAC for DVD-A .
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ladegaard tonearm - the real DIY winner livemusic Analogue Source 111 18th February 2013 04:03 PM
winner with -0- votes! tomtt The Lounge 4 10th April 2007 04:41 AM
And The Winner Is............................. Audiofanatic Digital Source 30 25th June 2006 07:24 AM
ESL amp: tubes vs solid state: where is the winner? Milo Tubes / Valves 43 28th April 2003 10:51 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:40 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2