I always thought that Creative Audigy 2 was a capable performer, with similar if not more capabilities compaired to <700Euro CD-Players. One day my father's Aiwa cd player (compact) broke down so a replacement was needed. We found a quick replacement in LIDL 
(Yes!) and it was a 3- cd players 
bigeyes(compact hifi from WELLTECH made in Germany, only for 45 Euro)bigeyes. We bought it and we found that it easily beated the sound of our aiwa, (using Aiwa's loudspeakers instead of Welltechs el cheapo ones). So it stayed in the hands of my father. After a month or so I wanted to experiment with it as it showed really good driving capabilities, (better than Aiwa's own amp), driving the Aiwa loudspeakers. So as it seemed to have a really good sound quality potential, I connected it with my Thule IA100 amp and Audio Pro Avantek Six. Wow boy what a difference! I couldn't imagine that a price of 45 Euro hifi piece could beat a 120 Euro Sound Card like Audigy 2. The sound was more rythmic, open, airy, dynamic, and full bodied! It was "faster" too! Now the Welltech is used as a cd-player instead of my pc! The cons are a little bit noisy output in ultra low volume <50db, not much difference in noise compaired to Audigy 2 analog outputs. Also the output is a little less powered up, but it's not compressed like in Audigy's sound. And don't forget the 3 years guarantee
P.S now I connected the Playstation one and one chinese dvd-player BlueSky, and both of them suck in terms of sound quality compared to Welltech. The PS had acceptable quality but very slow sounding!
P.S.2 Many people here in Greece may have bought their Audigy 2 or Audigy 4 as these cards where reviewed (the first one) by Greek Magazine Hitech, and they say that they had better sound quality when used in HomeTheaterPCs than cd-players costing 2000Euros and were on par with a very good universal player from denon costing 4000Euros. These are clear ********, so be careful. They drived with it some Nautilus 801 and Magnepan 3.6, with Mark levinson Monoblocks. Could they be right?
Sorry for the long post
(Yes!) and it was a 3- cd players bigeyes(compact hifi from WELLTECH made in Germany, only for 45 Euro)bigeyes. We bought it and we found that it easily beated the sound of our aiwa, (using Aiwa's loudspeakers instead of Welltechs el cheapo ones). So it stayed in the hands of my father. After a month or so I wanted to experiment with it as it showed really good driving capabilities, (better than Aiwa's own amp), driving the Aiwa loudspeakers. So as it seemed to have a really good sound quality potential, I connected it with my Thule IA100 amp and Audio Pro Avantek Six. Wow boy what a difference! I couldn't imagine that a price of 45 Euro hifi piece could beat a 120 Euro Sound Card like Audigy 2. The sound was more rythmic, open, airy, dynamic, and full bodied! It was "faster" too! Now the Welltech is used as a cd-player instead of my pc! The cons are a little bit noisy output in ultra low volume <50db, not much difference in noise compaired to Audigy 2 analog outputs. Also the output is a little less powered up, but it's not compressed like in Audigy's sound. And don't forget the 3 years guaranteeP.S now I connected the Playstation one and one chinese dvd-player BlueSky, and both of them suck in terms of sound quality compared to Welltech. The PS had acceptable quality but very slow sounding!
P.S.2 Many people here in Greece may have bought their Audigy 2 or Audigy 4 as these cards where reviewed (the first one) by Greek Magazine Hitech, and they say that they had better sound quality when used in HomeTheaterPCs than cd-players costing 2000Euros and were on par with a very good universal player from denon costing 4000Euros. These are clear ********, so be careful. They drived with it some Nautilus 801 and Magnepan 3.6, with Mark levinson Monoblocks. Could they be right?
Sorry for the long post
well, horror story two:
I found an old Fisher CD player on the garbage heap one day, you know, another one of those types that came to be when cdp's became cheap, like todays dvd's.
now, i took it hope, changed the rectifiers and output opamps, and pow, it beat my buddy's pioneer PD-S06 with flying colours.
simply everything was better.
oh how i envyed him that cdp for the longest time..
but then again, it's nice too, when you unexpected get great sounding stuff cheap or free.
oh, btw, i agree that the audigy is overrated.
you cant really enjoy music with it.
I found an old Fisher CD player on the garbage heap one day, you know, another one of those types that came to be when cdp's became cheap, like todays dvd's.
now, i took it hope, changed the rectifiers and output opamps, and pow, it beat my buddy's pioneer PD-S06 with flying colours.
simply everything was better.
oh how i envyed him that cdp for the longest time..
but then again, it's nice too, when you unexpected get great sounding stuff cheap or free.
oh, btw, i agree that the audigy is overrated.
you cant really enjoy music with it.
What about those of us that are building slowly their media PC's? I have all my music on my harddrives and external BUP's . When i wanna listen i just clcik and walk away. If the creative Audigy 2 sucks (i have one now ) what do WE do. I ripped all my CD's precisely to avoid having a stand alone player
Will a better card do me or do i have to get an internal pro DAC and output the analog that way. Or just get an external DAC and keep the AUdigy in there doing nothing but 'feeding' a Digital Signal out?
Will a better card do me or do i have to get an internal pro DAC and output the analog that way. Or just get an external DAC and keep the AUdigy in there doing nothing but 'feeding' a Digital Signal out?
If you're really cheap, a good upgrade from an Audigy 2 is the Chaintech AV-710. It's based on a Via Envy24 chip and goes for about $25-30. It sounds considerably better than my old Audigy 2 card. Much better soundstage and generally clearer. From what I understand, the M-Audio Revolution 5.1 is even better (not the 7.1, as it uses a lesser DAC than the 5.1). It's another Envy24 based card, but is a higher end design. The only downside to Envy24 based cards is that they have higher CPU utilization when playing games. Audigy cards are known for great game performance, usually in the single digits for CPU utilization. Envy24 based cards are in the 10-15% CPU utilization range if I remember correctly.
Even further up the sound quality ladder are the EMU cards, the 0404 which goes for ~$99 and the 1212 which is a bit more expensive, but better still. The downside to these cards is their lack of analog surround sound. You'll only get surround out of them with digital out (don't remember if it's coaxial or optical). Game performance also leaves something to be desired (they're worse for CPU utilization than the Envy24 cards), and I don't think they support EAX either. But for music, they're excellent. You can get even more expensive. Supposedly the M-Audio 2496 is very good, but I've not heard it.
Even further up the sound quality ladder are the EMU cards, the 0404 which goes for ~$99 and the 1212 which is a bit more expensive, but better still. The downside to these cards is their lack of analog surround sound. You'll only get surround out of them with digital out (don't remember if it's coaxial or optical). Game performance also leaves something to be desired (they're worse for CPU utilization than the Envy24 cards), and I don't think they support EAX either. But for music, they're excellent. You can get even more expensive. Supposedly the M-Audio 2496 is very good, but I've not heard it.
Malaka We are from the same country to. (half greek here with bad language skillz) I am a AMD 64 with 2 gig Oracle ECC ram on an MSI 8 series server board. ATi 850 and a cheesy 15 inch monitor as the 23 inch died and because of the source i aquired it from i couldnt warranty it. I have an Audigy 2 sound card because although i know about the pro cards i never imagined that the Audigy was that crappy for music till i came here. I have an Old Pioneer sx737 that the i am losing the love for quickly. Home built speakers i am presently trying to dial in. and 4 x 10 in two dual 10 configuration cabinets (unfinished)
I got the name the mad scientist because i fell in love with whatever caught my interest, i would study it and experiment till i either understood it or it blew up and nearly killed me. ( case in point my criminal charges for accidentally detonating homemade dynamite in a park ) I used to be into Ballistics, I was a CHEF apprentice ( experimenting with food can get you assaulted) Worked for the Police department ( that Job sucked my brother stayed though ) COmputer is my BIG love. Audio was the first thing that got my attention but i only ever scratched the surface of the electronics and theory of source. Car audio and pro. All we ever did was venue and event specific stuff. Biggest project ever for me was building a 150 Dollar HT for a guy about 11 years ago in Forrest Hill. And our IASCA winning BMW in 1994.
Now its audio again and model flight. I ordered my first radio controlled glider kit last week.
We are from the same country to. (half greek here with bad language skillz) I am a AMD 64 with 2 gig Oracle ECC ram on an MSI 8 series server board. ATi 850 and a cheesy 15 inch monitor as the 23 inch died and because of the source i aquired it from i couldnt warranty it. I have an Audigy 2 sound card because although i know about the pro cards i never imagined that the Audigy was that crappy for music till i came here. I have an Old Pioneer sx737 that the i am losing the love for quickly. Home built speakers i am presently trying to dial in. and 4 x 10 in two dual 10 configuration cabinets (unfinished)I got the name the mad scientist because i fell in love with whatever caught my interest, i would study it and experiment till i either understood it or it blew up and nearly killed me. ( case in point my criminal charges for accidentally detonating homemade dynamite in a park ) I used to be into Ballistics, I was a CHEF apprentice ( experimenting with food can get you assaulted) Worked for the Police department ( that Job sucked my brother stayed though ) COmputer is my BIG love. Audio was the first thing that got my attention but i only ever scratched the surface of the electronics and theory of source. Car audio and pro. All we ever did was venue and event specific stuff. Biggest project ever for me was building a 150 Dollar HT for a guy about 11 years ago in Forrest Hill. And our IASCA winning BMW in 1994.
Now its audio again and model flight. I ordered my first radio controlled glider kit last week.
Madmike2 said:Malaka
I got the name the mad scientist because i fell in love with whatever caught my interest, i would study it and experiment till i either understood it or it blew up and nearly killed me. ( case in point my criminal charges for accidentally detonating homemade dynamite in a park ) I used to be into Ballistics, I was a CHEF apprentice ( experimenting with food can get you assaulted) Worked for the Police department ( that Job sucked my brother stayed though ) COmputer is my BIG love. Audio was the first thing that got my attention but i only ever scratched the surface of the electronics and theory of source. Car audio and pro. All we ever did was venue and event specific stuff. Biggest project ever for me was building a 150 Dollar HT for a guy about 11 years ago in Forrest Hill. And our IASCA winning BMW in 1994.
Now its audio again and model flight. I ordered my first radio controlled glider kit last week.
Geezz... your even wors than me!
At least my explosives went off according to plan, in a non-populated area..
heh, getting my A64 3000 venice, abit AN8Ultra and X800 any day now.. i'm under the impression that a lot of guys here come from a past of computer modification.
the cpu is a 940, hence the serverboard and ecc ram? fx51?
-Marius
Madmike2, Bad language skills in Greek, but the word malakas is never being forgotten
The first surprise with bad quality of Audigy 2,was when I connected a LG dvd-player 70Euro.I was playing the same cd in PC and (copy of it) in the dvd and couldn't find any difference between the two, when changing the input in my amp.
P.S
for those that don't speak Greek,malakas is a bad word but it is used as call to someone very friend too!
The first surprise with bad quality of Audigy 2,was when I connected a LG dvd-player 70Euro.I was playing the same cd in PC and (copy of it) in the dvd and couldn't find any difference between the two, when changing the input in my amp.
P.S
for those that don't speak Greek,malakas is a bad word but it is used as call to someone very friend too!
Madmike2 said:What about those of us that are building slowly their media PC's? I have all my music on my harddrives and external BUP's . When i wanna listen i just clcik and walk away. If the creative Audigy 2 sucks (i have one now ) what do WE do. I ripped all my CD's precisely to avoid having a stand alone player
Will a better card do me or do i have to get an internal pro DAC and output the analog that way. Or just get an external DAC and keep the AUdigy in there doing nothing but 'feeding' a Digital Signal out?
One of the main reasons that the Audigy 2 ZS really isn't good at all is thanks to Creative' and Microsoft' choice to resample using kmixer(windows internal mixer) It takes the audio stream and mangles it to 48Khz when playing CD' audio back.
Then factor in poor clocks meaning jitter and bad DAC's and you can see why people feel its a poor choice. Great card for gaming and the little dings you get when you recieve mail but thats it for me.
The real way forward is with lossless, bit perfect stuff played via an untouched waveout or ASIO client such as Foobar, Winamp etc. With this method what you end up with is a perfect transport and I really do mean perfect in the sense that it cannot be bettered, what's on the CD is replicated exactly hence bit perfect.
Then you need to decide on clocks and DAC's, these are where you will have to spend money to gain the best results.
As a minimum I'd suggest an RME HDSP 9632 type caliber card, otherwise you could get more extravagant and add external clocking and DAC's to a card that supports Word or Super clock syncing.
Given quality components using the guidelines above, you can have a PC that sound better than virtually any intergrated CD and equals the very best transport/DAC combo's.
Tekko said:YUCKSoundcards in general sucks. I´d never again buy an internal one, i´d buy a external usb one powered by a well filtered wallwart and has OPA opamps and a good quality usb/analog onverter
The ones you have used may suck but soundcard in general don't suck.
Take a look in any modern studio and what will you find at the heart of it? A specialised PC with expensive soundcards, I'm pretty sure they don't use USB devices
Look at the Sound on Sound website to see some equipment listing and overviews of various studio in the UK
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